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Stanford historian uncovers a grim correlation between violence and inequality

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Re: Stanford historian uncovers a grim correlation between violence and inequality

#111

Post by whyileft »

hueving wrote: post #82
whyileft wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The largest voting blocks that have low turnout would make that gap larger, not smaller. Also, in urban areas where most of these protests are happening the gaps were enormous. In Washington, DC Donald Trump won 4% of the vote. Is it not surprising those people feel a bit underrepresented right now and might turn to alternative means of flexing their massive majority in the areas they specifically live?

>The largest voting blocks that have low turnout would make that gap larger, not smaller. Also, in urban areas where most of these protests are happening the gaps were enormous. There is no proof of that. "If this person who decided not to vote were a person who decided to vote then they would vote in a similar manner to the other people who decided to vote" is stupid reasoning because that person decided not to vote…

Im just helping one to understand why there are protests and unrest.

DC had a very small inaugural turnout and very large protest the day after. I was trying to give some perspective.

I believe it was about 90% in Chicago. San Fransisco was over 90%. New York City had a large margin. We are talking approximately 45 of the 50 largest cities in the country did not vote for Donald Trump.

I took high school civics. I know how the rules work. Im just telling you that civil unrest usually happens when people feel like the rules are unjust and they have little or no power to change it through the democratic process. So Im simply trying to shed some light on it to people who may not understand why people might feel that way.

Re: Stanford historian uncovers a grim correlation between violence and inequality

#112

Post by crdoconnor »

jasim wrote: post #32
perrick wrote: post #6

Louis Chauvel, a french sociology professor, made a similar argument using a Prey-Predatory model with trade union membership and income inequality over the last 100 years : "This article shows empirically how trade union membership and income inequality are mutually related in twelve countries over more than 100 years. While past research has shown that high income inequality occurs alongside low trade union members…

Here's another reason for unions to become defunct over time, as explained by Steve Bruce in his book Sociology: A Very Short Introduction. "Any kind of group activity requires organization. But as soon as one starts to organize one creates a division within the movement between the organized and the organizers, between ordinary members and officials. The latter quickly acquire knowledge and expertise that set them a…

Employers looking to divide and conquer will try everything in their power to pit employees against unions, including lying about the integrity of the paid trade union officials.

Media owners will similarly run false stories, exaggerate and blow out of proportion any instances of union corruption whilst simultaneously downplaying and ignoring vastly worse instances of corruption by the owners and managers.

Re: Stanford historian uncovers a grim correlation between violence and inequality

#113

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

digi_owl wrote: post #104
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Islamic-inspired terrorism draws a direct lineage from the writings of Sayyid Qutb ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb ), an Egyptian civil servant who studied in America and was aghast at how consumerism subversed communal and religious virtues, and even more shocked to see the same transformation occurring in the Arab world. He eventually drew the conclusion that consumerism sequestered people away from r…

Note that his thinking didn't turn militant until he was jailed and tortured by the Egyptian government. That at the time had backing of USA, and thus trained by the CIA.

Yes, and this is vital. Thank you for mentioning this. A lot of radicalization occurs for a reason. People don't just stumble across radical outlets and casually indoctrinate themselves. They are catalyzed first.

Re: Stanford historian uncovers a grim correlation between violence and inequality

#114

Post by CM30 »

Inconel wrote: post #20

That was an interesting read, it definitely makes me want to read the book for a more detailed analysis. I've increasingly been wondering about the links between violence/social unrest and inequality, particularly as we enter a period of time were globalization and automation have the potential to be hugely disruptive to the existing work force, even more so than they already have been. This is only tangentially rela…

Probably an insane thought, but perhaps the 'us vs them' attitudes in current political parties and stances may be having an effect?

Maybe people are too distracted by the whole theism vs atheism/religion vs religion arguments, the complaints about sexism/racism/transphobia/etc or general debates about whether things like abortion should be legal or not.

Maybe people are being sidetracked too much by party politics and internet debates to actually do anything about income inequality.

Or maybe as said before, the various other changes have decreased crime rates so much that even an increase in it due to this inequality is barely noticeable. If exposure to lead was really tied to crime rates, perhaps the huge drop off there simply masked everything else.

Re: Stanford historian uncovers a grim correlation between violence and inequality

#115

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

achamayou wrote: post #71
germinalphrase wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, many small - and still influential - unions are actively made up of their members. For instance, teachers unions (outside of large metropolitan areas) commonly vote their presidents and other officials directly from the teaching ranks. These leaders often receive little/no compensation for their additional duties.

But zeal in preserving an organisation isn't necessarily motivated by money (see various organised religions).

Money->power->action->legitimacy

Re: Stanford historian uncovers a grim correlation between violence and inequality

#116

Post by croon »

snappyTertle wrote: post #46

Inequality is not inherently a bad thing. People should be compensated for the value they produce. Profits are a signal of how much people value what is produced. For example, people love iPhones, it no surprise that Apple is the most valuable company in the world. What causes resentment between classes is lack of mobility. This, IMO, is caused by government regulations and a banking system that hurts the middle clas…

> Regulations like minimum wage and higher taxes on larger income make it hard to hire the next marginal employee. Minimum wage prices out low skilled workers, who would like to work and obtain on the job experience needed to climb the ladder. High taxes makes it more expensive for business owners to hire someone. I'm not talking about large businesses like Walmart (they actually support minimum wage). Small businesses are going out of business, or are just not able to start with increased costs of doing business.

Minimum wage creates a much larger purchasing force, which creates more rotation on the market, thus making everyone richer.

First you mention higher taxes on larger income, but then talk about small businesses? So which is it? Are you arguing that we should tax the rich less, or that we should subsidize small businesses with lower taxes?

But if you have looked at curves over tax rates and curves over income inequality, I think it'd be hard to argue that "trickle down" has every worked or ever will.

Tax rates per income over year since 1913: https://qz.com/74271/income-tax-rates-since-1913/

What's happened since the 80s: http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/02/11/384988128/the-f...

Re: Stanford historian uncovers a grim correlation between violence and inequality

#117

Post by RobertoG »

jellicle wrote: post #17
gm-conspiracy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War does not seem to destroy wealth, but redistribute it?

When a bomb destroys a building, to whom is the value of the building redistributed to?

To the owners of the other buildings, I suppose, they own a more scarce good now.

Also, capital destruction give a chance for building again, and it's building again that you can extract value and make a profit.

Re: Stanford historian uncovers a grim correlation between violence and inequality

#118

Post by RobertoG »

jellicle wrote: post #107
misja111 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the building company that will rebuild it.

Oh, so the rebuilding is done for free, funded by the value of the original building? No. The rebuilding requires additional work/money inputs to create the new building. The value of the original building is lost forever.

"The value of the original building is lost forever."

Of course, but if you are a building company, why would you care about that?.

There is this idea, that, in a society with very little scarcity, would be almost impossible to make a profit. Your only chance would be to burn everything and start again.

I really hope that theory is false.

Re: Stanford historian uncovers a grim correlation between violence and inequality

#119

Post by Retric »

sigmaprimus wrote: post #80

I love reading the comments on stories like this and consider these comments to be a bellwether as to the current state of inequality in our society. Unfortunately I tend to consider myself one who exists on the lower part of the wealth distribution logarithm within the western world, globally it's a different story. Just as anyone tweeting on their smart phone or tablet claiming to be part of the 99% might want to r…

Only if you ignore PPP and use exchange rates do you get ~33k/year. However, even then plenty of people in the US make less than that.

Re: Stanford historian uncovers a grim correlation between violence and inequality

#120

Post by nabla9 »

netman21 wrote: post #2

So the last decade's decline in violence in the US indicates a decline in inequality?

What if we count all violence, including exported violence?

Saudi Arabia has extreme inequality, but it has remained stable while exporting violence to the rest of the world. Maybe war against terror provides release for this violence in US too.

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