Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

1843magazine.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 105 posts

Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#21

Post by 6stringmerc »

Tangential Asian-National Students in US University Anecdote Time:

I attended a rather prestigious Graduate School program in the Liberal Arts at a state school. Education specifically. Campus population in the tens of thousands.

In some classes, I actually felt like part of a minority. There were consistently large populations Asian nationals in the field. Many nationalities, mind you, such as South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, and maybe one or two others. Teachers in their home country, they were attending to get the US Masters/PhD with every intention of returning home and getting a raise.

Yes, they did participate well in the learning environment, language issues aside, but more than one got homesick and would quit the program due to culture shock of living in the US for 2+ years. I can sympathize.

My takeaway was that the University was very happy to take the (presumably) higher tuition from foreign students primarily interested in the Degree for status advancement than turn them away. It could help keep a department going in a way, and, in turn, the University didn't worry that these graduates were going to stick around and try to get US jobs on those degrees. It kind of wasn't the bargain.

It is worth noting, I think, that most of the Asian national students in my program or field were in their 30s or 40s. They had life experience, families, professional careers...I guess the point of the reflection is the University got a good revenue stream and the Graduates got their Degree for status back home. Win-win? Ehhhh...

Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#22

Post by BeetleB »

qntty wrote: post #8
kyleschiller wrote: post #2

Chinese students are products of an educational system that, for all of its high achievers, is built to suppress intellectual curiosity, creativity and individuality – the very qualities that American admissions officers value most. Let's not pretend Chinese students are turned away because they lack individuality. The fairly well documented[0][1][2] truth here is that American universities are using qualities like "…

There's a big difference between the discrimination against Asian-American students (which does happen) and discrimination against students from Asia. For one, public universities exist mostly to educate people from the state they are based, and can justify discriminating against people outside the state and even more against people who don't live in states which exchange students with that state (i.e. people outside…

>None of this justifies discriminating against Asian-American students, which is truly unjust, and shouldn't be confused for justifiable discrimination.

I keep hearing this (primarily from Asian Americans who feel they didn't get into their preferred top N school), and yet they never provide evidence to support it.

They give me reason and logic, but no evidence. It is trivially easy to find counterexamples to all their reason.

Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#23

Post by wolfgke »

munin wrote: post #15
crispyambulance wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admissions try to get a well-rounded student body rather than many well-rounded students but the Asian-American "tiger-mom" phenomena is not a joke for elite college admissions officers. They really do see large numbers of what are known (in derogatory terms) as Asian-clones: 4.0 GPA, violin or piano skills, and no authentic detectable motivation other than getting high grades for the purpose of becoming a doctor or…

> and no authentic detectable motivation They're 18. What do you want? What authentic motivation did you have when you were 18?

> They're 18. What do you want? What authentic motivation did you have when you were 18?

When I was 18 I had an authentic motivation for studying math and computer science (which I did; German's admission procedures for courses of studies are different from how it works in the USA).

What I did not have was something that made me look very social, outstanding, future leader etc. I was (and still am in many senses) the kind of rebellious, cynic, scientifically brillant (at that time without any opportunity to show) nerd who finds working in science much more exciting than about anything else.

P.S.: I was never the kind of person who can serve as a role model, since the only advice I can give is the ones my father gave me (he, being a working-class child, worked his way up): "There is always someone who will be better than you, but not being the second-best is failure." and "If you don't work harder than everybody around you, it is no surprise if you fail.". This is not something that people want to hear from role models - they want to hear things that are more socially compatible.

Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#24

Post by Naritai »

BeetleB wrote: post #22
qntty wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big difference between the discrimination against Asian-American students (which does happen) and discrimination against students from Asia. For one, public universities exist mostly to educate people from the state they are based, and can justify discriminating against people outside the state and even more against people who don't live in states which exchange students with that state (i.e. people outside…

>None of this justifies discriminating against Asian-American students, which is truly unjust, and shouldn't be confused for justifiable discrimination. I keep hearing this (primarily from Asian Americans who feel they didn't get into their preferred top N school), and yet they never provide evidence to support it. They give me reason and logic , but no evidence. It is trivially easy to find counterexamples to all th…

Did you look at the 3 links provided above? To quote from [3]: "They find that being Asian is the equivalent of a 140 point score penalty on your SAT when applying to top private universities. For example, a white student that scored 1360 on the SATs would be on equal footing with an Asian student that scored 1500."

Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#25

Post by hatmatrix »

School-Cotton wrote: post #19
crispyambulance wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admissions try to get a well-rounded student body rather than many well-rounded students but the Asian-American "tiger-mom" phenomena is not a joke for elite college admissions officers. They really do see large numbers of what are known (in derogatory terms) as Asian-clones: 4.0 GPA, violin or piano skills, and no authentic detectable motivation other than getting high grades for the purpose of becoming a doctor or…

So? If the 1000 best candidates are Asian then you should admit the 1000 Asians. I can see giving extra help to historically marginalized races at the expense of whites, but why ding Asians? They weren't responsible for racism in the US. They weren't the ones stealing resources from other people. Do correct me if I'm wrong but your post seems to amount to "a lot of Asians work hard and are smart, so let's have a quot…

But what is "best"? While their achievements are commendable, admitting all of them will lead to a homogeneous student body and presumably not the best outcome for the institution, its graduates, or society.

Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#26

Post by PakG1 »

nraynaud wrote: post #3

They forgot to mention the SEVIS record madness (want to know what the muslim registry will look like?), I20, being heckled or killed in the streets and casual border crossing racism by the CBP.

I work in China these days for the past few years. Have Canadian citizenship. During the holidays, visited friends in New York and went to Seattle. Both times, I was pulled aside for second inspection. New York got a total douche. He was on a power trip as we walked across the lobby, asking people if they saw a sign that said they could use their cell phones. No, then put the phone away. Eh, didn't see any signage saying it wasn't OK... https://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume1...

Going to Seattle, the guy was nice this time. He said he'd let me know why I got pulled aside for the extent that he was legally able, because being pulled aside had ruined our ability to go to the Boeing Future of Flight Center, which closed entry by a certain time. Apparently, going to China so often flags me. As well, the fact that my dad and I had just visited Turkey also. OK, I get if there are reasons that I get flagged, and most of these guys are just doing their jobs. But don't be a douche like the first guy. Be nice like the second guy.

Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#27

Post by wolfgke »

titomc wrote: post #20

Part deux: What Asian students go through once they get their degrees from American Universities. They go down the rabbit hole of America's broken immigration system, starting with OPT visa, then H1B (read lottery luck, not based on skills) & then the country based quota for green card currently 7 to 9 years for EB2 categories for India & China. Did I forgot to mention the exorbitant out of state tuition fees and the…

The students characterized in this article come from rather prosperous families.

Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#28

Post by lordnacho »

Regarding the children of famous/important people, perhaps someone can shed some light.

How exactly do you specify on your application who your parents are?

I remember the process at Oxford, there wasn't really a way to say "oh btw my dad is a rock star" other than the personal statement. And it's hardly going to impress the person who's interviewing you to blurt out something like that, because all the questions are technical.

Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#29

Post by HillaryBriss »

School-Cotton wrote: post #19
crispyambulance wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admissions try to get a well-rounded student body rather than many well-rounded students but the Asian-American "tiger-mom" phenomena is not a joke for elite college admissions officers. They really do see large numbers of what are known (in derogatory terms) as Asian-clones: 4.0 GPA, violin or piano skills, and no authentic detectable motivation other than getting high grades for the purpose of becoming a doctor or…

So? If the 1000 best candidates are Asian then you should admit the 1000 Asians. I can see giving extra help to historically marginalized races at the expense of whites, but why ding Asians? They weren't responsible for racism in the US. They weren't the ones stealing resources from other people. Do correct me if I'm wrong but your post seems to amount to "a lot of Asians work hard and are smart, so let's have a quot…

> ... giving extra help to historically marginalized races at the expense of whites ...

What if the incoming class only has space for 1000 students? 500? 100?

Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#30

Post by jseliger »

munin wrote: post #15
crispyambulance wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admissions try to get a well-rounded student body rather than many well-rounded students but the Asian-American "tiger-mom" phenomena is not a joke for elite college admissions officers. They really do see large numbers of what are known (in derogatory terms) as Asian-clones: 4.0 GPA, violin or piano skills, and no authentic detectable motivation other than getting high grades for the purpose of becoming a doctor or…

> and no authentic detectable motivation They're 18. What do you want? What authentic motivation did you have when you were 18?

They're 18. What do you want? What authentic motivation did you have when you were 18?

Seriously. My thoughts exactly. There are obviously some 18-year-old college students who know exactly what they want (some of them are replying), but even many of those will change their minds. When I was 18 I had no idea what I wanted to do (except perhaps get laid), but it was clear that college was "the next step."

On a tangential note, this thread reminds me of writing admissions essays. "Why do you want to come to this school / program?" You can never say the obvious: "Cause it's the most prestigious (or cost-effective) school I think I might get into."

Post reply on HN