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What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

1843magazine.com

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Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#11

Post by Naritai »

qntty wrote: post #8
kyleschiller wrote: post #2

Chinese students are products of an educational system that, for all of its high achievers, is built to suppress intellectual curiosity, creativity and individuality – the very qualities that American admissions officers value most. Let's not pretend Chinese students are turned away because they lack individuality. The fairly well documented[0][1][2] truth here is that American universities are using qualities like "…

There's a big difference between the discrimination against Asian-American students (which does happen) and discrimination against students from Asia. For one, public universities exist mostly to educate people from the state they are based, and can justify discriminating against people outside the state and even more against people who don't live in states which exchange students with that state (i.e. people outside…

But if that (educating their own country's people) were their goal (leaving aside, for the moment, whether we agree on the validity of that goal), it would be much better if they just said so, rather than relying on a stereotype-driven narrative instead.

Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#12

Post by mentaiko »

hueving wrote: post #6
mentaiko wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In high stakes games like college admissions, the pressure to win drives many people to commit fraud. I am skeptical that Chinese parents are committing fraud in greater numbers than American parents- it's just easier for admissions officers to filter and check the Chinese applicants (via interview to check the validity of the TOEFL score, as described in the article). It would be interesting to read about what all p…

>instead of joining the popular parade of articles dehumanizing the Chinese. Did you read TFA? The entire thing is written from the perspective of individuals and their struggle.

In fact I did. It is possible we had different interpretations. The article highlighted a young woman's journey while pounding out the general "otherness" of the Chinese, and without any reflection on the parallels that occur everywhere. It's another to add to the pile.

Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#13

Post by Someone1234 »

nraynaud wrote: post #3

They forgot to mention the SEVIS record madness (want to know what the muslim registry will look like?), I20, being heckled or killed in the streets and casual border crossing racism by the CBP.

I'm very confused by your post. I know what SEVIS is and have personally experienced a LOT of problems with CBP, and agree that racism is part of the organisation's core.

But the "hackled or killed in the streets." What does that refer to?

Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#14

Post by wolfgke »

Naritai wrote: post #11
qntty wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big difference between the discrimination against Asian-American students (which does happen) and discrimination against students from Asia. For one, public universities exist mostly to educate people from the state they are based, and can justify discriminating against people outside the state and even more against people who don't live in states which exchange students with that state (i.e. people outside…

But if that (educating their own country's people) were their goal (leaving aside, for the moment, whether we agree on the validity of that goal), it would be much better if they just said so, rather than relying on a stereotype-driven narrative instead.

I believe they rather educate (and select applicants) based on the values of the country where the university is located. So they don't discriminate actively against Chinese applicants, but against some of the values that the Chinese education system imparts.

Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#15

Post by munin »

crispyambulance wrote: post #10
kyleschiller wrote: post #2

Chinese students are products of an educational system that, for all of its high achievers, is built to suppress intellectual curiosity, creativity and individuality – the very qualities that American admissions officers value most. Let's not pretend Chinese students are turned away because they lack individuality. The fairly well documented[0][1][2] truth here is that American universities are using qualities like "…

Admissions try to get a well-rounded student body rather than many well-rounded students but the Asian-American "tiger-mom" phenomena is not a joke for elite college admissions officers. They really do see large numbers of what are known (in derogatory terms) as Asian-clones: 4.0 GPA, violin or piano skills, and no authentic detectable motivation other than getting high grades for the purpose of becoming a doctor or…

> and no authentic detectable motivation

They're 18. What do you want? What authentic motivation did you have when you were 18?

Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#16

Post by 6stringmerc »

munin wrote: post #15
crispyambulance wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admissions try to get a well-rounded student body rather than many well-rounded students but the Asian-American "tiger-mom" phenomena is not a joke for elite college admissions officers. They really do see large numbers of what are known (in derogatory terms) as Asian-clones: 4.0 GPA, violin or piano skills, and no authentic detectable motivation other than getting high grades for the purpose of becoming a doctor or…

> and no authentic detectable motivation They're 18. What do you want? What authentic motivation did you have when you were 18?

To get an education to facilitate a "good" job, pay my own bills, make my own decisions about free time, friendships and activities, and, most of all, not have to live with my parents. Granted, I'd had tastes of all of these growing up in a well rounded home life, but those were the values instilled in me. How I chose to get there was up to me.

Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#17

Post by wolfgke »

nraynaud wrote: post #3

They forgot to mention the SEVIS record madness (want to know what the muslim registry will look like?), I20, being heckled or killed in the streets and casual border crossing racism by the CBP.

> being heckled or killed

Not being a native English speaker, I had to look up the meaning of "to heckle". Before I looked it up, in the context with "killed" I thought it would be a cynic derivation from "Heckler & Koch" (a gun manufacturer), just as "to hoover" (in British English), "to taser" or "to google". :-)

Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#18

Post by EliRivers »

munin wrote: post #15
crispyambulance wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admissions try to get a well-rounded student body rather than many well-rounded students but the Asian-American "tiger-mom" phenomena is not a joke for elite college admissions officers. They really do see large numbers of what are known (in derogatory terms) as Asian-clones: 4.0 GPA, violin or piano skills, and no authentic detectable motivation other than getting high grades for the purpose of becoming a doctor or…

> and no authentic detectable motivation They're 18. What do you want? What authentic motivation did you have when you were 18?

I had a real, authentic interest in my chosen degree subject. I really, genuinely wanted to know all about it. I didn't ever want a job (and I still don't want one). I really, authentically wanted to be good at it for no other purpose than the pleasure of being able to fluidly understand it and play with it.

Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#19

Post by School-Cotton »

crispyambulance wrote: post #10
kyleschiller wrote: post #2

Chinese students are products of an educational system that, for all of its high achievers, is built to suppress intellectual curiosity, creativity and individuality – the very qualities that American admissions officers value most. Let's not pretend Chinese students are turned away because they lack individuality. The fairly well documented[0][1][2] truth here is that American universities are using qualities like "…

Admissions try to get a well-rounded student body rather than many well-rounded students but the Asian-American "tiger-mom" phenomena is not a joke for elite college admissions officers. They really do see large numbers of what are known (in derogatory terms) as Asian-clones: 4.0 GPA, violin or piano skills, and no authentic detectable motivation other than getting high grades for the purpose of becoming a doctor or…

So? If the 1000 best candidates are Asian then you should admit the 1000 Asians.

I can see giving extra help to historically marginalized races at the expense of whites, but why ding Asians? They weren't responsible for racism in the US. They weren't the ones stealing resources from other people.

Do correct me if I'm wrong but your post seems to amount to "a lot of Asians work hard and are smart, so let's have a quota on Asians because they're hardworking and smart in a way I find boring".

By the way, as a matter of policy, it seems fine to me if people can become doctors who are smart and who only worked hard because they wanted to become doctors. When I go to the doctor I care mainly about whether they know their shit, not whether they were subjectively "well-rounded" at age 18.

Re: What Chinese students go through to get into top American universities (2016)

#20

Post by titomc »

Part deux: What Asian students go through once they get their degrees from American Universities.

They go down the rabbit hole of America's broken immigration system, starting with OPT visa, then H1B (read lottery luck, not based on skills) & then the country based quota for green card currently 7 to 9 years for EB2 categories for India & China. Did I forgot to mention the exorbitant out of state tuition fees and the loans they took for it in their home country ?

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