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Safari 10.1

developer.apple.com

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Re: Safari 10.1

#161

Post by robotmlg »

om2 wrote: post #129
robotmlg wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to consider the Safari Technology Preview. Updates every 2 weeks! https://webkit.org/downloads/ (Although, it has had some pretty major bugs. There was about a month where commenting on Github was broken, and currently JIRA doesn't even render.)

We try to prioritize bugs that block livability for STP. Do you know if there's a bug filed on the JIRA thing so I can get folks to follow up?

Yep, it's this one: https://openradar.appspot.com/30056643

Thanks!

EDIT: Also just found this Firefox bug report for the same thing: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1328218 Discussion there seems like it's really more of a JIRA bug than an FF bug ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Safari 10.1

#162

Post by philliphaydon »

eridius wrote: post #110
philliphaydon wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless of course you touch type in which case you end up looking at the keyboard now....

No you don't. Why would you? Touch-typing relies on you knowing where each key is, and the Escape key is still in the same place it always was.

If I use a normal keyboard, even on my 12" Macbook, I never need to look at the keyboard, but with the touch bar, I simply cannot press the esc key, i put my finger there, touch it, and sometimes nothing happens, its like it doesn't register that you press it, or maybe im touching it wrong.

Regardless I feel like I'm trying to re-learn to type.

I'm moving to a Dell XPS 15 tho. Done with Apple if this is the direction they are going.

Re: Safari 10.1

#163

Post by mitchty »

jbmorgado wrote: post #159
mitchty wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extensions in the gallery also didn't take a $100 membership until 2015. Needless to say not many people developed extensions then either. So blaming Safari membership as being the problem for extensions not being developed seems to also miss the history of extensions. Also you can install extensions outside of the gallery: https://github.com/el1t/uBlock-Safari/releases

So, the way Apple choose to solve the lack of extensions for their browser was to keep everything the same and charge 100$/year on top of that. Doesn't seem like a very smart business practice. In any case you are forgetting that although you can install extensions made outside Apple Dev. program, you can't update them because they aren't signed. You have to keep checking the extension page (like uBlock Origin), see…

> You have to keep checking the extension page (like uBlock Origin), see when there is a new version, download the new version, and re-install it... all manually.

Or just write a script, which isn't that hard, outside of applescript. And the ability to install extensions outside of the dev program seems to invalidate that one cannot install extensions unless in the dev program. That they're not auto updated is a rather trivial thing to work around.

Re: Safari 10.1

#164

Post by Corrado »

koalalorenzo wrote: post #139
pbreit wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason I use Chrome over Safari is accounts. Has anyone heard if Safari has any plans to add profiles/accounts?

I think their point of view is to use the OS Accounts, (Talking about macOS) where the browser is focusing only on specific things, while the OS takes care of things like "Accounts".

This is all well and good but doesn't help when I'm working with multiple clients. For example, I'm an AWS DevOps guy and am generally logged into AWS under 3 different accounts at any one time. Can you do something like that with Safari? Chrome has "Accounts" and Firefox is experimenting with "Collections" but I don't know how to do it with Safari.

Re: Safari 10.1

#165

Post by eridius »

philliphaydon wrote: post #162
eridius wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you don't. Why would you? Touch-typing relies on you knowing where each key is, and the Escape key is still in the same place it always was.

If I use a normal keyboard, even on my 12" Macbook, I never need to look at the keyboard, but with the touch bar, I simply cannot press the esc key, i put my finger there, touch it, and sometimes nothing happens, its like it doesn't register that you press it, or maybe im touching it wrong. Regardless I feel like I'm trying to re-learn to type. I'm moving to a Dell XPS 15 tho. Done with Apple if this is the direction…

What do you mean by "the direction they are going"? Are you implying that next Apple is going to replace the rest of the keyboard with touchbar-like keys? Because I highly doubt that's going to happen.

Re: Safari 10.1

#166

Post by krrrh »

dvdhnt wrote: post #76
sehr wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari's store & extensions are part of the Apple ecosystem, not the web's. Part of the trade off I suppose.

Right, that's what I was trying to get at, sort of. From the developer page for extensions - > The future of extensions development takes place in Xcode and > To develop without a certificate, you must tell Safari each time it is launched These points can be trivial for someone who is or has no issue becoming a part of the Apple Developer Program. However, the red tape seems contradictory and almost hostile compared…

It definitely would be great if you could use your preferred tools and build from the commandline, or if Apple could ease the process of self-signing for local deployment.

However, the tension between developer and user friendliness as noted elsewhere in this discussion applies here as well. Presumably a part of the fees that Apple collects from developers covers the cost of auditing extensions for security, and identifying developers which provides a disincentive for user-hostile activity.

Meanwhile, Chrome extensions have been a vector for adware and malware–often because bad actors will buy popular but unmaintained extensions and users will get an updated version that is user-hostile in some way. One could argue that Apple should fund the auditing process out of other revenue, and that it is short-sighted of them to try to make the developer ecosystem self-funding on the backs of deveopers of free extensions, but either way, I've felt a lot safer recommending Safari to my less technical friends and family than Chrome for this reason alone.

Re: Safari 10.1

#167

Post by robotmlg »

om2 wrote: post #129
robotmlg wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to consider the Safari Technology Preview. Updates every 2 weeks! https://webkit.org/downloads/ (Although, it has had some pretty major bugs. There was about a month where commenting on Github was broken, and currently JIRA doesn't even render.)

We try to prioritize bugs that block livability for STP. Do you know if there's a bug filed on the JIRA thing so I can get folks to follow up?

Just letting you know, this bug is fixed in STP Release 22

Re: Safari 10.1

#168

Post by alwillis »

madeofpalk wrote: post #160
alwillis wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that Safari's engine WebKit is used for mission critical things in macOS and iOS… many apps like Mail, the App Store, iTunes and many thousands of 3rd party applications, right? Every WebView in a macOS or iOS app is backed by WebKit—it's not just a browser; it's an extremely important system software component on over a billion devices. I think Safari Tech Preview and WebKit Nightlies are a good trade…

Yup. Of course I realise that. But also I believe that implementation details of iTunes also shouldn't hold users (and/or developers) back. Safari Tech Preview was a huge surprise and an awesome leap for community engagement and awareness of upcoming works. But the realities are that "the industry" is moving ahead faster than Safari's (at best) twice-a-year release cycle. I can 1005 appreciate vendors taking time to…

The narrative that somehow Safari’s release cycle is causing major problems in the "industry" or that somehow, macOS and iOS users are being left behind is false, especially for everyday users.

I use an old MacBook laptop running MacOS 10.7.5 with Safari 6.1.6, an ancient version of Safari by today's standards--about four years old--when I'm out and about. Otherwise, I'm using macOS Sierra with Safari 10.x on two different iMacs.

On the MacBook I use Facebook, Slack and many other websites without a problem. I get a warning banner on Gmail that says my version of Safari is no longer supported; other than a few cosmetic issues, I can send and receive email just fine.

The point: web developers have long figured out how to deal with multiple browsers across different platforms with different capabilities. Many differences and bugs have polyfills; it's not a show stopper.

Look, there are major features and minor ones; Safari has been at the leading edge with support for CSS Grids, wide-gamut color support, variable fonts, 100% of ES6, CSS Snap Points in addition to rendering speed and power efficiency.

There certainly have been calls to reduce the pace of new specs and releases so we developers can catch their breath and so that Apple, Google and Mozilla can release quality implementations--there's nothing wrong with that.

Re: Safari 10.1

#169

Post by mitchty »

jbmorgado wrote: post #159
mitchty wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extensions in the gallery also didn't take a $100 membership until 2015. Needless to say not many people developed extensions then either. So blaming Safari membership as being the problem for extensions not being developed seems to also miss the history of extensions. Also you can install extensions outside of the gallery: https://github.com/el1t/uBlock-Safari/releases

So, the way Apple choose to solve the lack of extensions for their browser was to keep everything the same and charge 100$/year on top of that. Doesn't seem like a very smart business practice. In any case you are forgetting that although you can install extensions made outside Apple Dev. program, you can't update them because they aren't signed. You have to keep checking the extension page (like uBlock Origin), see…

Here, non manual updating of that plugin I spent all of 10 minutes on this morning due to a meeting: https://gist.github.com/mitchty/feb05fd4a98bdbe53bd66476f7db...

Its basically 10 lines, and the applescript is new to me. Keeping extensions up to date shouldn't be that hard. And now I've got a script for keeping that one extension up to date.

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