How to Deal with Populism • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Deal with Populism

#21

Post by tdkl » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 5:15 PM UTC

zoner wrote: post #11

alva wrote: post #6

How about addressing the widespread concerns that cause "populism" even if it means setting back your own ulterior agenda? Brexit and immigration is a good example of this. Blair decided mass immigration was a good idea for a number of reasons. At some point they surely realised that although it would provide an economic boost, some people would lose out financially and most did not want significant cultural change i…

Exactly the same thinking as mine. And what the liberals are doing? Whining more racism and continuing the same agenda.

They're also irresponsible and blame others (Russian hackers).

Like children who grew up being sheltered, then came to college and saw protesting (blaming others) is the answer.

Re: How to Deal with Populism

#22

Post by fisherjeff » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 5:15 PM UTC

zoner wrote: post #11

alva wrote: post #6

How about addressing the widespread concerns that cause "populism" even if it means setting back your own ulterior agenda? Brexit and immigration is a good example of this. Blair decided mass immigration was a good idea for a number of reasons. At some point they surely realised that although it would provide an economic boost, some people would lose out financially and most did not want significant cultural change i…

Exactly the same thinking as mine. And what the liberals are doing? Whining more racism and continuing the same agenda.

So your concerns demand a fix while others' deserve this kind of dismissive treatment? I don't see how that's any better.

Re: How to Deal with Populism

#23

Post by pjc50 » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 5:15 PM UTC

alva wrote: post #6

How about addressing the widespread concerns that cause "populism" even if it means setting back your own ulterior agenda? Brexit and immigration is a good example of this. Blair decided mass immigration was a good idea for a number of reasons. At some point they surely realised that although it would provide an economic boost, some people would lose out financially and most did not want significant cultural change i…

I refer people to my previous comments on the politics of immigration, where people pretty much admit that it's not about immigration status (which you can't see) but ethnicity (which you can). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13470571

There are real economic problems, and the press have been quite effective at blaming them on immigration when really they're more due to inequality.

> Trump succeeds and does a good job

Succeeds for whom? Different people want very different things, that's where politics comes from in the first place. What would "success" look like? How much global warming does it include?

For some Americans, the executive order banning entry for a list of nationalities means that their spouses can never leave the country again and are at greatly increased risk of being deported.

(There's a similar argument happening in the UK where "success" for some people means unemployment for others, or even being obliged to leave the country)

Re: How to Deal with Populism

#24

Post by badlucklottery » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 5:17 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #10

canadian_voter wrote: post #7

Your organizing principle is simple: don’t feed polarization, disarm it. This is so important. Samantha Bee can't stop making piss jokes about Trump. That's not going to win anyone over. Nina Donovan's poem, recited by Ashley Judd at the Women's March, is brave and powerful. It is also polarizing. There is a line: "I’m not as nasty as a man who looks like he bathes in Cheeto dust." That's not going to win anyone over…

It does not need to be Samantha Bee's job to win everybody over.

Of course. It's her job to entertain her audience.

But that audience is free to ask for less focus on the insubstantial.

Re: How to Deal with Populism

#25

Post by tomp » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 5:17 PM UTC

santialbo wrote: post #9

In Spain the word populism has turned into an insult that traditional political parties use freely against new political parties even if the statements are perfectly legit (e.g. universal basic income). Is this happening in other countries too?

Yes. Everywhere "populism" is used as an insult for political parties that actually listen to people and intent to do as the population wants, as opposed to established parties that mainly keep their power because of intertia and are getting more and more disconnected from their voters.

Populism is how democracy is supposed to work.

Re: How to Deal with Populism

#26

Post by monkmartinez » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 5:17 PM UTC

alva wrote: post #6

How about addressing the widespread concerns that cause "populism" even if it means setting back your own ulterior agenda? Brexit and immigration is a good example of this. Blair decided mass immigration was a good idea for a number of reasons. At some point they surely realised that although it would provide an economic boost, some people would lose out financially and most did not want significant cultural change i…

The problem in the US is that there is no clear majority. Let's be clear, there are more than 2 parties, but the ultimate choice is completely binary: REP||DEM. The one who can dance in the media the best, wins.

It is all a load of bullshit.

Re: How to Deal with Populism

#27

Post by jerrycruncher » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 5:18 PM UTC

de_Selby wrote: post #16

alva wrote: post #6

How about addressing the widespread concerns that cause "populism" even if it means setting back your own ulterior agenda? Brexit and immigration is a good example of this. Blair decided mass immigration was a good idea for a number of reasons. At some point they surely realised that although it would provide an economic boost, some people would lose out financially and most did not want significant cultural change i…

I agree completely with your premise but I don't think you've identified the real issue with immigration and brexit - the real underlying issue is unemployment/underemployment, fallout from the financial crisis, near 0% interest rates etc all combining to leave the poor with next to nothing. Then they see immigrants arriving around the same time all this is happening and assign the blame to them.

I can't speak to your other points, but extremely low interest rates are not any kind of impairment to 'the poor,' as they generally do not have much in the way of savings, and benefit from 'cheaper' loans for things like cars or housing.

Re: How to Deal with Populism

#28

Post by rwmj » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 5:21 PM UTC

alva wrote: post #6

How about addressing the widespread concerns that cause "populism" even if it means setting back your own ulterior agenda? Brexit and immigration is a good example of this. Blair decided mass immigration was a good idea for a number of reasons. At some point they surely realised that although it would provide an economic boost, some people would lose out financially and most did not want significant cultural change i…

Gordon Brown (PM after Blair) introduced the Migrant Impact Fund precisely to spread the benefits of migration to those who would normally lose out. The Tory/Lib Dem coalition cancelled the project 4 months after they got into power (in August 2010 to be precise). Then austerity was piled on top, and now we've arrived at where we are today.

Re: How to Deal with Populism

#29

Post by alva » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 5:21 PM UTC

de_Selby wrote: post #16

alva wrote: post #6

How about addressing the widespread concerns that cause "populism" even if it means setting back your own ulterior agenda? Brexit and immigration is a good example of this. Blair decided mass immigration was a good idea for a number of reasons. At some point they surely realised that although it would provide an economic boost, some people would lose out financially and most did not want significant cultural change i…

I agree completely with your premise but I don't think you've identified the real issue with immigration and brexit - the real underlying issue is unemployment/underemployment, fallout from the financial crisis, near 0% interest rates etc all combining to leave the poor with next to nothing. Then they see immigrants arriving around the same time all this is happening and assign the blame to them.

I agree that there are many reasons behind Brexit aside from immigration. On this point however, this Labour policy to dramatically increase immigration started in 1997.

Re: How to Deal with Populism

#30

Post by whenwillitstop » Wed, Jan 25, 2017, 5:21 PM UTC

de_Selby wrote: post #16

alva wrote: post #6

How about addressing the widespread concerns that cause "populism" even if it means setting back your own ulterior agenda? Brexit and immigration is a good example of this. Blair decided mass immigration was a good idea for a number of reasons. At some point they surely realised that although it would provide an economic boost, some people would lose out financially and most did not want significant cultural change i…

I agree completely with your premise but I don't think you've identified the real issue with immigration and brexit - the real underlying issue is unemployment/underemployment, fallout from the financial crisis, near 0% interest rates etc all combining to leave the poor with next to nothing. Then they see immigrants arriving around the same time all this is happening and assign the blame to them.

"the real underlying issue is unemployment/underemployment"

Why is a country that as high unemployment allowing high levels of immigration? Being mad about that seems highly rational to me