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Should gifted students go to a separate school?

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Re: Should gifted students go to a separate school?

#21

Post by got2surf »

germinalphrase wrote: post #16

Alternatively, why not just allow advanced students to graduate and start college/career early, if they so desire. I know this happens in exceptional cases, but why force a kid to just load up with AP classes (which may - but probably do not - match college level rigor) rather than simply taking college courses? If they're past what high school can offer then let them finish and leave. We keep far too many students i…

College courses are a great option too (my school district allowed "dual enrollment" where you could take anywhere from one to all of your classes at one of the local community or state colleges). There are definitely some cases where the AP equivalent is "harder", better taught, or better suited to high-school age students, though.

I agree that defining "advanced" is very challenging, and goes beyond just the academic as well. There's also something to be said for being academically engaged with people similar to you (ie - some (most?) high school kids may learn more from peers in a self-selected AP Calculus class than they would from a Calc 1 class at the local college taken by kids looking to fill a requirement).

Re: Should gifted students go to a separate school?

#22

Post by dvcc »

jschwartzi wrote: post #6
jawns wrote: post #3

Here in the U.S., very few public high schools have single-track education, at least not for "core" subjects such as English, math, and science. There are typically remedial, standard, honors, and AP classes for these subjects. And I would think that if you're OK with multi-track education, it would seem like having a separate school for gifted students is just an extension of that. That said, in my own experience, a…

Mostly what I learned in high school was how to talk to kids from blue-collar families. Don't use multi-syllabic words, and talk only in concrete terms. Avoid use of abstraction and don't pontificate about anything.

Wow, as a member of a blue-collar family this is downright insulting. The gross generalization of an entire social class is anything but healthy.

Funny enough, I just finished reading the article and comments from the story on what it's like to be poor at an Ivy League (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13480802). Personally, I thought that I never really felt disparate enough where I actually stuck out to my peers, and that the thoughts everyone had were more akin to class anxiety. It seems that the thoughts are not always unfounded I guess. Oh well.

Re: Should gifted students go to a separate school?

#23

Post by MichaelBurge »

The government should not be running any schools at all. They can impose taxes to fund them, but everyone should go to private schools that operate on the free market. Then you wouldn't need to ask the government to build another school; you could just do it.

Re: Should gifted students go to a separate school?

#24

Post by ng12 »

jawns wrote: post #3

Here in the U.S., very few public high schools have single-track education, at least not for "core" subjects such as English, math, and science. There are typically remedial, standard, honors, and AP classes for these subjects. And I would think that if you're OK with multi-track education, it would seem like having a separate school for gifted students is just an extension of that. That said, in my own experience, a…

The diversity bit sounds nice in theory but as a kid who loved learning and went to highschool in a socioeconomically challenged area I would have given anything to go to a charter school. It was frankly a terrifying environment.

Also a significant amount of the school's resources went to these kids who just didn't want to be there. They had to pay for two security guards, overtime pay for the teachers who did detention/Sunday school, etc. They only offered 4 AP classes each of which had ~50 students because they were the ones who wouldn't get into fights if you just stuffed them into a room with some books.

Re: Should gifted students go to a separate school?

#25

Post by aaronchall »

jschwartzi wrote: post #6
jawns wrote: post #3

Here in the U.S., very few public high schools have single-track education, at least not for "core" subjects such as English, math, and science. There are typically remedial, standard, honors, and AP classes for these subjects. And I would think that if you're OK with multi-track education, it would seem like having a separate school for gifted students is just an extension of that. That said, in my own experience, a…

Mostly what I learned in high school was how to talk to kids from blue-collar families. Don't use multi-syllabic words, and talk only in concrete terms. Avoid use of abstraction and don't pontificate about anything.

I was frequently picked on for using words they (other students, many better off than me) knew the meaning of but would rather play dumb and try to make me feel bad.

I tried to empathize, but since I didn't value going along to get along, I didn't play along, and I didn't earn a lot of loyal friends that way.

It's not about class so much as values, and it wasn't my parent's values so much as it was my identity and valuing intelligence (although no adults I ever met devalued intelligence).

Re: Should gifted students go to a separate school?

#26

Post by shawabawa3 »

iplaw wrote: post #7

Yes. Without a single doubt. I attended the long-running #1 public school in the nation. The School for the Talented and Gifted Magnet High School in Dallas, TX. The environment fostered creativity and learning. There were no distractions or negative pressures or stressors. Being smart didn't result in being bullied, it resulted in being respected.

I think there's no doubt that it's a good thing for the students that go to these schools.

The question is whether it's good for society as other schools may suffer

Re: Should gifted students go to a separate school?

#27

Post by jmduke »

ng12 wrote: post #19
jmduke wrote: post #11

I know this article is Australia-centric, but most US schools, to my knowledge, have multi-track educational programs (gifted students can take more advanced courses, take Honors/IB/AP, etc. etc.) which have separate curricula and teachers. In this respect, they're already in a separate program: having them go to a separate school entirely just hurts socialization between groups of students, which is more important f…

The problem in the US is that the AP kids get shafted because so much of the budget is spent on running a glorified daycare for the kids who really don't want to be there.

If the issue is "not enough of an area's educational budget is devoted to AP kids", I don't see how that is solved by creating an entirely different school? If there's enough money to create a school for gifted kids, then I think that money is better spent investing in the AP programs in those multi-track schools.

(It's entirely possible that I'm overlooking some nuances in how education budgets work, but I'm talking more in the macro sense.)

Re: Should gifted students go to a separate school?

#28

Post by makecheck »

In order to keep students motivated, they should have opportunities to work at their best pace (i.e. let them work with other “gifted” students on interesting projects from time to time). On the other hand, learning how to interact with everyone is important and that will matter when it comes to functioning in society as an adult. It will also ensure that gifted people remain aware of and interested in all of society’s problems and not just whatever is happening in their silo.

Re: Should gifted students go to a separate school?

#29

Post by arethuza »

dijit wrote: post #2

Absolutely. I'm going to sound very self-centered and certainly not humble but when I was enrolled in mandatory education I was doing so under Tony Blair's Labour government. This government was elected under premises such as nationalisation and additionally "Education, Education, Education"[0]. As such no child was allowed to fail school. This had the opposite affect in my primary school, instead of segregating the…

The very humble comprehensive I went to in Scotland addressed this issue with streaming - which seemed to work pretty well.

Is streaming out of fashion in state schools these days? I know its alive and well in public schools as my son was streamed.

Edit: For those outside the UK: public schools are a type of private school.

Re: Should gifted students go to a separate school?

#30

Post by steverb »

germinalphrase wrote: post #16

Alternatively, why not just allow advanced students to graduate and start college/career early, if they so desire. I know this happens in exceptional cases, but why force a kid to just load up with AP classes (which may - but probably do not - match college level rigor) rather than simply taking college courses? If they're past what high school can offer then let them finish and leave. We keep far too many students i…

This is currently the approach used by my daughter's school (and a lot of others in Tennessee), dual enrollment. She has some high school classes and takes a few others at the local community college.

Next year she will be a senior and have one morning class at her high school, and the rest will be college. She should finish her Associate's (2 year) degree two semesters after graduating high school.

Some more academically gifted students have managed to graduate high school and finish their two year degree simultaneously.

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