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George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

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Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#201

Post by AnthonyMouse »

jaredklewis wrote: post #74
shard972 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "alternative facts" I think people are taking this and running at breakneck speed without stopping to look at what they actually mean by this. After watching the first few press conferences and Kelly Anne's interviews where she said that, it seems clear to me they weren't trying to say there were more people physically at the inauguration in their "alternative facts" but what they are referring to specifically is t…

Direct quote from Sean Spicer: > This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period, both in-person and around the globe If "in-person" doesn't mean "physically at the inauguration" what does it mean then? It is not ambiguous. Spicer made an unsubstantiated claim, and has since been defensively walking it back to the equally unsubstantiated second part of "around the globe." "The media" is a very b…

> If "in-person" doesn't mean "physically at the inauguration" what does it mean then? It is not ambiguous.

The ambiguity isn't what "in-person" means, it's what "both in-person and around the globe" means. Does it mean "both 1) in person and 2) around the globe (each independently)" or does it mean "both (the total sum) in person and around the globe"?

Obviously the second is more strained, but it's not completely absurd, especially if you allow for the inelegant phrasing common in live briefings.

It's easy to find things like this if what you're really looking for is to start a fight.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#202

Post by edblarney »

beloch wrote: post #17

I must admit, I'm really confused by how impeachment works in the U.S.. Clinton was impeached for perjury and abuse of power because he took advantage of his position (and a political intern) and then lied about it. Now we have a president who is not giving up his business interests while in office and who has already told some absolute whoppers, including the release of official press releases that were nothing but…

"This is probably a good time for people to be reading 1984."

This is ridiculous.

The hate for Trump has caused people to go into utterly misguided tizzies, and it's pathetic.

I loathe Trump - but he's not a totalitarian.

He has given no indication of encroaching on civil liberties, there's no indication he wants to socialize large parts of the economy, or expand control by government, or even expand surveillance programs.

He's boorish, loud-mouthed and says crude things - but his policy actions are not that drastic.

'Enforce immigration laws' - fairly reasonable.

'Build pipelines' - outside of environmental concerns - absolutely normal.

'Re-negotiate trade deals' - not sure if I agree but not crazy.

'Get NATO allies to pay their share' - not crazy.

A 'mild' social conservative totalitarian might roll back laws on gay marriage, abortion etc. - but Trump hasn't mentioned it at all.

He has been forceful on trying to get American jobs back, and he'll likely overhaul the tax code, likely with some tax breaks.

He hasn't been nearly as aggressive in terms of foreign policy as Clinton.

He's indicated that he wants to get along with Russia. Is this such a bad thing? Clinton/Obama tried it earlier as well.

I think he presents himself in a manner unfit for someone who's in public office, but in the end, his actual actions are not particularly outlandish - and nowhere near totalitarian.

Obama would have socialized the entire healthcare system if he had the choice, and vastly expanded the welfare system, and would likely have introduced far more controlling legislation if allowed - and we do know he oversaw a fairly robust expansion of the surveillance state.

So Obama happens to be a 'nice guy' and 'not boorish' - does that make him any more or less totalitarian.

People need to grow up.

Trump is kind of a blow-hard, not a Nazi.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#204

Post by flukus »

vixen99 wrote: post #86
banku_brougham wrote: post #4

This is amazing. The womens marches over the weekend and these seem to be an indicator of a very sudden awakening.

Why would a march be more significant than the votes of 62 million people? I agree that an awakening is overdue given that for instance, America’s child poverty levels are worse than in any developed country anywhere, including Greece and only Slovakia, Chile, Mexico and Turkey have worse infant mortality rates. Median adult wealth is 27th out of 27 high-income countries; internet speed and access is 16th out of 34 c…

Identity politics hides issues like this more than anything. A poor black person in a ghetto and a poor white one in a trailer park should be the same voting block but they've been polarized by both sides trying to lock down their demographics.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#205

Post by JauntTrooper »

arrosenberg wrote: post #97
beloch wrote: post #17

I must admit, I'm really confused by how impeachment works in the U.S.. Clinton was impeached for perjury and abuse of power because he took advantage of his position (and a political intern) and then lied about it. Now we have a president who is not giving up his business interests while in office and who has already told some absolute whoppers, including the release of official press releases that were nothing but…

I'd say we're probably closer to 25th amendment territory than impeachment. It isn't clear (to the extent the law requires) that Trump has high crimes or treason, and whether he will or not is immaterial until he does. It does appear very clear that he is not fit to discharge his duties, however. What is going to happen the first time there is a crisis like a shooting or a hurricane. The next time the south gets wipe…

it's actually phrased "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" in the Constitution, so the President could be impeached for a misdemeanor.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#206

Post by edblarney »

knz wrote: post #57
dllthomas wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm really confused by how impeachment works in the U.S. Impeachment requires a crime. Lying isn't usually a crime, and as best I can tell hasn't been one any of the times Trump has done it (.. yet?). It also hasn't been a crime any of the times Obama has done it. Failure to give up business interests is breaking precedent and confounding ethicists, but also doesn't seem to be illegal. When we come up with somethin…

We've probably all seen the emoluments clause raised as one way he may be breaking the law. I'm not a legal expert but I would assume, if it's true, that breaking the Constitution would be illegal? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_of_Nobility_Clause "The Title of Nobility Clause is a provision in Article I, Section 9, Clause 8 of the United States Constitution, that ... restricts members of the government from r…

Trump has had reams of lawyers on this one for a while.

If the Dems thought they could 'get him' on his ownership of whatever, they would have been pressing it already.

I think as it stands, he's on decent legal footing.

Which admittedly is a little ridiculous, you'd think the Prez. would not be above conflict of interest.

Aside from that, Trump says ridiculous things, but they are mostly in the vein of ridiculous populism. It makes him look ridiculous to most people, I don't know why he does it, that said, none of his policies so far are as gonzo as his ridiculous rhetoric.

Give it time. Maybe he'll cool down, or maybe he'll do something impeachable.

I predict: tons and tons of PR snafus, but nothing illegal.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#207

Post by allemagne »

jupiter90000 wrote: post #193
azernik wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my (quite far-left) perspective, I would be very okay with that outcome. The Presidency's most unchecked power is in foreign policy, where Trump truly scares me. Pence as President would not change the balance of power in Congress, which is where most of the social and economic decisions (where I really have problems with Pence) would be made. Putting on my non-partisan hat, though, I am nervous about the preced…

Is there something about Pence's track record that suggests he'd be better for USA on foreign policy?

I doubt Pence would accidentally put American international agreements, institutions, and treaty organizations into question with weird rambling tweets. I also doubt he'd find any value in antagonizing Mexico over a silly monument to xenophobia.

Pence is no foreign policy wiz but I'm not worried about him precipitating huge geopolitical shifts against America's interests.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#208

Post by kr7 »

e40 wrote: post #179
downandout wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump has been in office for 4 days. Conflict of interest laws do not apply to US Presidents, so the business interest argument is moot. We don't impeach Presidents because a loud group of people dislikes the fact that they lost an election. We impeach Presidents when they commit crimes, which he has not done and hasn't even been in office long enough to do.

Conflict of interest laws do not apply to US Presidents That is Trump-level spin. Wow.

The President is exempt from conflict of interest laws.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/208:

(a) Except as permitted by subsection (b) hereof, whoever, being an officer or employee of the executive branch of the United States Government... has a financial interest—Shall be subject to the penalties set forth in section 216 of this title.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/202:

(c) Except as otherwise provided in such sections, the terms “officer” and “employee” in sections 203, 205, 207 through 209, and 218 of this title shall not include the President, the Vice President, a Member of Congress, or a Federal judge.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#209

Post by edblarney »

anubisresources wrote: post #37
dllthomas wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm really confused by how impeachment works in the U.S. Impeachment requires a crime. Lying isn't usually a crime, and as best I can tell hasn't been one any of the times Trump has done it (.. yet?). It also hasn't been a crime any of the times Obama has done it. Failure to give up business interests is breaking precedent and confounding ethicists, but also doesn't seem to be illegal. When we come up with somethin…

Failure to give up his business interests is an impeachable offense. He literally does not meet the requirements set forth in the Constitution. He isn't being impeached because his party controls both houses.

"Failure to give up his business interests is an impeachable offense."

Nope. They've had lawyers on this for a while, and I think he's ok on it.

FYI - do you know how many Republican secretly wished that Trump were 'gone'? Probably most of them. He's a) a loose cannon and b) not actually a conservative on many issues.

I think he's legally in the clear on his ownership issues.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 is currently the top selling book on Amazon

#210

Post by azernik »

jupiter90000 wrote: post #193
azernik wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my (quite far-left) perspective, I would be very okay with that outcome. The Presidency's most unchecked power is in foreign policy, where Trump truly scares me. Pence as President would not change the balance of power in Congress, which is where most of the social and economic decisions (where I really have problems with Pence) would be made. Putting on my non-partisan hat, though, I am nervous about the preced…

Is there something about Pence's track record that suggests he'd be better for USA on foreign policy?

As far as I know he's more or less the proverbial generic Republican on foreign policy. Which sounds a lot better to me than Trump's uneducated unpredictability.
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