Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

neurosciencenews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 246 posts

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#191

Post by anigbrowl »

return0 wrote: post #75
anigbrowl wrote: post #48

“This defines a completely novel strategy for medication development,” says lead author As someone with schizoaffective problems and raging ADHD, I find quotes like this acutely annoying. I've told every psychiatrist I'eve ever dealt with about the experiential costs/benefits of smoking (and consuming various other recreational drugs). They all nod sagely and say things like 'but smoking is bad' (no shit Sherlock!) w…

Are there not alternatives to smoking for taking nicotine?

Oh there are, but I was really really hooked on smoking. Until I quit I would keep going back to for the speed of the hit, sorta like a junkie who couldn't give up the needle.

Funnily enough I've never had problems with more stereotypically addictive drugs like cocaine. Maybe it's because of being exposed so much earlier or something.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#192

Post by wutbrodo »

md224 wrote: post #54
wutbrodo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that the association between marijuana use and anxiety is way way higher than between alcohol and anxiety

I think the idea is that if people didn't have access to alcohol, many of them would realize they have no good way to calm their nerves, and therefore realize they have anxiety issues.

I know, and I'm saying that's more so the case for marijuana than alcohol. I've been smoking weed recreationally since college and still enjoy doing so, but the only time Ive done it more than once a week for an extended period of time was during an inordinately stressful time at work a few years ago (right before I ended up quitting and taking a sabbatical to travel). Alcohol is ubiquitous and easy to get, so it's by far the most common for self-medicating many things, but in the hypothetical we're talking about availability isn't relevant.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#193

Post by BurningFrog »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #49
dragonwriter wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nicotine is the addictive agent in cigarettes, but not much of the harm.

Isn't nicotine rather weakly addictive alone, and only significantly addictive when combined with other stuff in tobacco? https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine#addictiveness

That's what I've heard too. Not that I've studied the science.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#194

Post by iak8god »

jdietrich wrote: post #143
iak8god wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The report you linked does not explain the 95% number, and following their citations bottomed out in articles that don't contain that number either. I'd need to spend more time looking through those before I'd feel comfortable saying that no existence for the 95% harm reduction claim can be found in the tree of citations spinning out from the PHE report , but please be aware that as of now you have not provided evide…

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm...

Thanks, this is more clear and straightforward about where they got that number, though the relevant citation ends up being the same as in the longer document.

The evidence cited in that summary is the study 'Estimating the Harms of Nicotine-Containing Products Using the MCDA Approach'[1]. If you read that paper, I guarantee you will find yourself much less confident in the 95% harm reduction claim. Briefly, here's the method they employed:

* Convene a panel of "international experts" in a two day workshop. * Ask each participant to separately rate how harmful they believe each type of nicotine-containing product is, on a scale of 0 (no harm) - 100 (cigarettes). * Weight/average the scores and publish the results

In case anyone is inclined to think that counts as "evidence", be aware that the authors of that study don't:

"A limitation of this study is the lack of hard evidence for the harms of most products on most of the criteria"

They fail to mention in particular the lack of long-term evidence for some of the products, which have not been available long enough to properly measure.

In any case, I am aware that vaping nicotine is much safer than combusting tobacco (though I think the latter is a lot yummier). However, I found this to be an interesting case study in how a report can pull out precise and scientific-looking numbers like 95% and trust that people for the most part will take that at face value without looking into the scientific validity of the claim.

[1] http://www.karger.com/article/FullText/360220

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#195

Post by iak8god »

DanBC wrote: post #100
iak8god wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are you assuming the nicotine is solely to blame, and not for example the carbon monoxide? Good point, thanks. I will relax my assumption to "some of the cardiovascular disease is caused by nicotine," and admit that I don't have enough information to know what percentage of smoking deaths are attributable to just the nicotine. Do you happen to know if they've figured this out?

I don't know. I am uncomfortable with some of the other comments in this thread saying that nicotine is harmless. :-/

Well. Vapers gonna vape :)

Nicotine is one of my favorite drugs, which is why I personally keep a safe distance from it. E-cigarettes may be worse for you than a glass of water, but I am pretty happy about all the lives they're saving as they replace regular cigarettes.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#196

Post by angry-hacker »

SparkyMcUnicorn wrote: post #116
bencollier49 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why vaping should be banned in enclosed public spaces, especially offices.

I'm completely against the rudeness of vaping in the situations you describe, but studies (easy google search with many results) show that second hand vapor is harmless. I added this link to another comment, but I'll link it here as well. http://notblowingsmoke.org/

I think it's just a bit rude. You can take a time out and do it somewhere where other people don't have to smell your latest strawberry liquid. I vape, smoke and do snus.. Not st the same time.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#197

Post by Turing_Machine »

cmdrfred wrote: post #110
lucasmullens wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because someone who chewed nicotine gum got a cyst we should ban vaping in offices? I'm not sure I follow.

People shouldn't vape in offices for the same reason they shouldn't pass gas. It smells and it's rude.

Nicotine is odorless, as are propylene glycol and glycerin (the other components of the liquid).

Many liquids do have flavor components added, but odor is not an inherent part of vaping.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#198

Post by angry-hacker »

rtpg wrote: post #158
agentgt wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never been addicted to cigarettes and do not smoke but I do chew nicotine gum all the time for ADD (and yes there is a difference between ADHD and ADD). I took me a while to figure out that nicotine is a superior stimulant over caffeine, adderall, ritalin and even chocolate extract (albeit chocolate was surprisingly effective). The big plus with nicotine is that it doesn't have the after downer that the above…

As another ADD-diagnosed person, my understanding is the current consensus is that ADD is simply a different manifestation of ADHD. That is to say, same underlying root cause, so treatment can be similar. Didn't know about the nicotine angle though, kind of interested in the research on this.

I'm sorry for this rude person but are there, or why, so any Americans with adhd. I don't know anyone having it here and I meet a lot of Hackers... The population should be similar. Here it feels like everyone has it or knows about it.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#199

Post by anigbrowl »

beambot wrote: post #167
UweSchmidt wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A doctor should be quite curious about a something that might alleviate a common and serious ailment. Other things to do might be having a look in recent literature if 'nicotine' and 'schizophrenia' show up in the same paper, ping a colleague in research, or alternatively, explain the error of OP's reasoning in simple terms. More fundamentally, an educated person should be able to have two different ideas in their he…

So... bear with me: Patient comes in and says "I noticed that nicotine helps with my symptoms." Doctor does some searches & reading and sees no results (because this study hadn't been published yet). Doctor tells patient, "There is no published, scientific evidence between nicotine use and treatment of schizophrenia. But there is evidence that smoking is bad." That seems perfectly reasonable for a practicing doctor b…

A reasonable reaction would be 'tell me about the difference it makes to your symptomology' and maybe helping the patient figure out a way to track this systematically. Likewise I would have thought that mentioning my extensive experience of psychedelic drugs (also now suddenly fashionable) would have merited something other than 'uhuh', such as questions about how the temporary improvement in mood manifested or how long it lasted. I manage to have very interesting conversations on subjects I know nothing about by the simple method of asking people questions about the domain knowledge they've acquired, and I doubt that any psychiatrist has ever lost their license for listening too closely to their patients.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#200

Post by epx »

qrybam wrote: post #38

Tangential self experimentation anecdote: I was intrigued by reports that nicotine can improve cognition in otherwise healthy people so I read through as many studies/articles I could find online. After deciding that I'd done enough research I took the plunge and began self experimenting with 2mg gum. I took it daily throughout the day at regular-ish intervals for around 2-3 months. The affects I experienced were as…

Smoking is my "afterburner" - the ace in the hole. I love the smell of smoke - better if mixed with chocolate and coffee - but I have asthma and it comes back if I smoke more than two days in a row. So I keep this treat for the moments that I need to overcome some extra mental challenge, work all night long, etc. Or, sometimes, to get a "high". Before anyone asks, I do it very infrequently - thrice a year at the most.
Post reply on HN