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Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

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Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#41

Post by iak8god »

rabidrat wrote: post #26
mahyarm wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it more the delivery mechanism than the drug itself?

After lung disease, the second largest consequence of tobacco smoking is heart disease, which is due to the nicotine itself.

It looks like about 1/3 of smoking-related deaths are due more to the nicotine than the smoke: https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/heal...

That's much higher than I'd assumed, and bad news for those who want to claim that e-cigarettes are essentially safe.

EDIT: DanBC points out below[1] that it's wrong to assume the cardiovascular disease is caused primarily by nicotine, which is how I came to think it was about 1/3. So I retract this interpretation, but leave it up for posterity :)

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13467235

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#42

Post by wutbrodo »

seizethecheese wrote: post #32
derefr wrote: post #25

This makes me wonder what the modern world would look like if all "recreational drugs" suddenly disappeared, and so all the people who were implicitly, unknowingly self-medicating for a mental illness by using recreational drugs, suddenly weren't. What percentage of the population would go from seemingly neurotypical, to perceivably mentally ill? How much more common would conditions like schizophrenia be?

Alcohol: Anxiety disorders Marijuana: OCD Caffeine: ADHD

My understanding is that the association between marijuana use and anxiety is way way higher than between alcohol and anxiety

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#43

Post by adbge »

This is at the intersection of several of my interests.

The idea that nicotine improves cognition in schizophrenia is not new and, indeed, several drugs inspired by this idea (nicotinic agonists) are currently in the pipeline for the treatment of ADHD, schizophrenia, and depression. [1]

In this paper, the researchers are focused on a polymorphism in the CHRNA5 gene. Pulling up my 23andme data, this mutation (rs16969968) looks common, listed at 45% of the population. I have one of the "bad" alleles and, personally, use nicotine as a stimulant every once in a while and find it more effective than coffee but less effective than adderall.

If you are interested in this sort of research, I recommend getting part of your genome sequenced with 23andme [2] and then running your data through Promethease [3]. But, remember, don't take anything too seriously -- most of this isn't settled science.

There is also some evidence that nicotine may function as a "nootropic," i.e. a drug that enhances cognition even in the healthy. Nick Bostrom mentions using nicotine and caffeine to aid writing his book Superintelligence.

Contrary to what you might believe, nicotine is probably not all that bad for you, or even that addictive when not used in combination with an MAOI. The best review of this is, as usual, by Gwern. [4]

Finally, I want to mention a few other interesting properties of nicotine:

- The drug seems to more strongly reinforce behaviors done while under the influence of it than it reinforces "taking nicotine" (addiction). This may make it useful for implementing positive habits. e.g. I often chew half a piece of nicotine gum while running in an attempt to solidify my exercise routine.

- One study suggests that, at least in mice, nicotine administration results in long-term upregulation of reward sensitivity. [5]

Huge disclaimer here at the bottom: if this post convinces you to experiment with nicotine, please do not start with vaping. The near-instant reinforcement of inhaling a stimulant makes it much more addictive. Stick with gum, or a tincture. [6]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotinic_agonist#Current_stat... [2] https://www.23andme.com/ [3] https://promethease.com/ [4] https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine [5] http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v31/n6/full/1300905a.html [6] https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/3lvkmc/nicotine...

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#44

Post by mona_simpson »

qrybam wrote: post #38

Tangential self experimentation anecdote: I was intrigued by reports that nicotine can improve cognition in otherwise healthy people so I read through as many studies/articles I could find online. After deciding that I'd done enough research I took the plunge and began self experimenting with 2mg gum. I took it daily throughout the day at regular-ish intervals for around 2-3 months. The affects I experienced were as…

Take-away from that is to look up the literature /before/ carrying out the self-experimentation. It could have saved the nasty experience with the retina cyst which sounds very nasty.

I guess we normally only get to hear of the self-experiments with great results and advances for science and medicine. The not-so-good results can tend to get buried both figuratively and literally.

Hope you're fully recovered.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#45

Post by rrmm »

derefr wrote: post #21
BurningFrog wrote: post #14

That Schizophrenia patients smoke a lot is well known. I guess this explains it. The other weird Schizophrenia fact is that blind people are never Schizophrenic. Congenital Blindness, that is. Poking your eyes out won't cure Schizophrenia once you have it.

But how about poking your visual cortex out?

People who are blind (congenital or otherwise) still use their visual cortex.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#48

Post by anigbrowl »

“This defines a completely novel strategy for medication development,” says lead author

As someone with schizoaffective problems and raging ADHD, I find quotes like this acutely annoying. I've told every psychiatrist I'eve ever dealt with about the experiential costs/benefits of smoking (and consuming various other recreational drugs). They all nod sagely and say things like 'but smoking is bad' (no shit Sherlock!) while making absolutely zero effort to measure or help me track any of this. Every mentally ill person I've known has said much the same thing. Of all the medical professionals I've ever dealt with, psychiatrists are the laziest and least imaginative.

Edited to add that I quit tobacco ~7 years ago using chantix, which I totally recommend. Unfortunately my mental ilnesses have become harder to deal with over the same period. The last time I reached out to my psychiatrist he said he hadn't seen me in so long that he didn't have room in his practice for me any more. What an asshole.

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#49

Post by TeMPOraL »

dragonwriter wrote: post #40
BurningFrog wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cigarettes are very harmful and addictive. Nicotine is only somewhat addictive and even less harmful.

Nicotine is the addictive agent in cigarettes, but not much of the harm.

Isn't nicotine rather weakly addictive alone, and only significantly addictive when combined with other stuff in tobacco?

https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine#addictiveness

Re: Nicotine Normalizes Brain Activity Deficits That Are Key to Schizophrenia

#50

Post by md224 »

seizethecheese wrote: post #32
derefr wrote: post #25

This makes me wonder what the modern world would look like if all "recreational drugs" suddenly disappeared, and so all the people who were implicitly, unknowingly self-medicating for a mental illness by using recreational drugs, suddenly weren't. What percentage of the population would go from seemingly neurotypical, to perceivably mentally ill? How much more common would conditions like schizophrenia be?

Alcohol: Anxiety disorders Marijuana: OCD Caffeine: ADHD

Everyone taking opiates would be depressed but nobody would be sure if it was pre-existing depression or Post-Acute Withdrawal Syndrome.

In general, it can sometimes be difficult to differentiate drug withdrawal from re-emergence of a pre-existing condition.

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