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Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

reuters.com

11–20 of 75 posts

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#11

I can't understand till today how they (and others) are capably to sell PBX hardware when there are free and low cost software alternatives which runs on common x86 hardware. FreePBX for Linux ( https://www.freepbx.org/ ) or MizuSwitch for Windows ( https://www.mizu-voip.com/Software/VoIPServer/FreeSoftswitch... ) are very good free alternatives which can be managed also by non-technical people with zero telecom expe…

All free and open source solutions only serve companies up to a couple of hundred employees.

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#12
post #7

I can't understand till today how they (and others) are capably to sell PBX hardware when there are free and low cost software alternatives which runs on common x86 hardware. FreePBX for Linux ( https://www.freepbx.org/ ) or MizuSwitch for Windows ( https://www.mizu-voip.com/Software/VoIPServer/FreeSoftswitch... ) are very good free alternatives which can be managed also by non-technical people with zero telecom expe…

They have a pretty good name in contact centre technology. I think the bigger shift is that people don't need desk phones anymore. The move to mobile is killing the need for fancy PBX gear in business.

Well the contact centers I know are not going mobile but going to soft phones on the pc.

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#13
Not to take away from challenges of the legacy telecommunications industry right now, but this article slides in the private equity LBO part of Avaya's story at the very end - and then only hints at what happened here.

I hope the pensioners and benefits obligations get paid the money they are owed ASAP, because this is a classic story of private equity (Silver and TPG) financially engineering a cash-siphon from a dying dinosaur and then "phoning it in" when it came to the manage out/re-price of new risk.

I don't have a problem with mega private equity and I can see some kool-aid drinkers saying "any acquisition made in October 2007 (the technical peak of the pre-crisis market) was going to have a tough time working out as played". But this was a deal designed to fail from the start.

Basically the private equity stunt here was: find a company that has $100, take $99 of it, use the company's last $1 to buy a lottery ticket, try to convince other investors that $1 ticket is a winner. They failed huge here.

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#14
post #7

I can't understand till today how they (and others) are capably to sell PBX hardware when there are free and low cost software alternatives which runs on common x86 hardware. FreePBX for Linux ( https://www.freepbx.org/ ) or MizuSwitch for Windows ( https://www.mizu-voip.com/Software/VoIPServer/FreeSoftswitch... ) are very good free alternatives which can be managed also by non-technical people with zero telecom expe…

They have a pretty good name in contact centre technology. I think the bigger shift is that people don't need desk phones anymore. The move to mobile is killing the need for fancy PBX gear in business.

I used to be the lead developer on an IVR/PBX SaaS solution. It hasn't been necessary to have dedicated hardware for years (ever since out-of-band DTMF has been a thing). The only reason that companies buy it is because they're getting conned into it.

We had a server through which the conversation (SIP, converted from landlines) went, and enabled the agent to interact with the call through either a web page, or hitting keys on their phone. Transfers, blind or not, holds, recordings, assistance, we could handle all of it. To dumb phones. Literally things that weren't able to display the time of day.

Mobile is doing diddly squat, frankly. Same as softphones. The voice quality over wi-fi is terrible, and what's the point of using a mobile device if it needs to be plugged in anyway. Softphones never took off because call centres couldn't reuse their headphone equipment, and having a headphone's "pick up" button work on a softphone was impossible, at scale. It also meant that actually interacting with the call was tricky (change focus of the window to find the numpad, then either click on digits, or type on the keyboard).

One major game changer, however, seems to be WebRTC. A lot of companies are investing big on it (see Dixa and COLT for example).

I really think this is a generational problem. Callcentres of old want the highly integrated hardware. Train your people once, and then they can become robots. New, modern places want the ability to switch providers. They want their agents to be close to the customer, and even closer to the tracking/reporting software stack, without going through 10 layers of proprietary integration.

WebRTC also means that you can simply talk to the person on your website, while you see what they see, and can walk them through whatever they need.

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#15
I have been working at avaya for the last couple years and I have been scratching my head trying to understand how this company works and how it got into this situation. On one hand its a company thats hasn't made a profit in 10 years but on the other it takes in a billion every quarter. When you look at the numbers it turns out it is paying tens of millions to service the interest on its massive debt... it would be quite profitable if it was not for this. So where did the debt come from? Most of it seems to have come from the leveraged buyout it underwent 10 years back. So now they file for chapter 11 bankruptcy but who is getting burned here? Anyone who bought an avaya bond will lose out but what about the private equity company that owns the place? The way the company was allowed to grow its debt seems like they just didnt care as if it wasnt going to hurt them when bankruptcy finally beckons.

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#16

I can't understand till today how they (and others) are capably to sell PBX hardware when there are free and low cost software alternatives which runs on common x86 hardware. FreePBX for Linux ( https://www.freepbx.org/ ) or MizuSwitch for Windows ( https://www.mizu-voip.com/Software/VoIPServer/FreeSoftswitch... ) are very good free alternatives which can be managed also by non-technical people with zero telecom expe…

It's true that open source can replace some PBX functionality.

There are though, operations that require scale or functionality that either doesn't exist, or isn't quite bulletproof in the open source world.

SS7 connectivity, geographically spread call centers, priority queuing based on multiple concurrent data sources, drag-drop complex IVR software, natural language parsing, natural language generation, contextual screen pops with hooks to caller information, and so forth.

Some of those are available in open source, yes. Not necessarily proven at scale, easy to integrate, etc.

Of course, Avaya filing for bankruptcy hints that there aren't many customers that need this sort of stuff anymore. Either the support function is shifting to chat/email, or they are using SaaS vs their own equipment.

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#17
post #13

Not to take away from challenges of the legacy telecommunications industry right now, but this article slides in the private equity LBO part of Avaya's story at the very end - and then only hints at what happened here. I hope the pensioners and benefits obligations get paid the money they are owed ASAP, because this is a classic story of private equity (Silver and TPG) financially engineering a cash-siphon from a dyi…

"But this was a deal designed to fail from the start."

Can you elaborate on this further? I just made a comment earlier about how Avaya ended up in this situation and I have had a feeling, based on how the last few years have played out, that you might be right: I just dont understand how the owners could have run the company the way they did and make out with a profit.

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#18

I have been working at avaya for the last couple years and I have been scratching my head trying to understand how this company works and how it got into this situation. On one hand its a company thats hasn't made a profit in 10 years but on the other it takes in a billion every quarter. When you look at the numbers it turns out it is paying tens of millions to service the interest on its massive debt... it would be…

By definition, the more leveraged the company, the more of it is owned by creditors. So if the company later does go belly-up, it is the creditors (banks, bondholders, etc.) who lose most on a percentage basis.

This simplistic analysis however ignores that before the buyout the company might have been a prosperous self-sustaining entity fully capitalized by common stock with little debt. That common stock, made into a small percentage of the capital structure by the buyout, is often wiped out too in the event of bankruptcy - indeed it is usually at the bottom of the totem pole in that capital structure. So although they may no longer be majority owners, bankruptcy is typically an unhappy event for long-time stockholders of the company such as founders, employees holding company stock in their 401ks, etc.

Perversely this is the kind of company PE outfits typically go after - in their worldview it is a waste of leveraging potential not to apply debt to such a company. I recommend reading "Barbarians at the Gate" if you are interested in this topic.

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#19
post #2

They really went too hard with the whole proprietary software thing (but who am I kidding, telecom loves proprietary). Even though I know very little about Avaya, my assumption every time I have tried to look them up is that they are locked down and difficult to integrate with. If I'm wrong, they sure as hell spent a lot of time leading me to believe I'm right.

[deleted]

Re: Telecommunications company Avaya files for bankruptcy

#20
post #11

I can't understand till today how they (and others) are capably to sell PBX hardware when there are free and low cost software alternatives which runs on common x86 hardware. FreePBX for Linux ( https://www.freepbx.org/ ) or MizuSwitch for Windows ( https://www.mizu-voip.com/Software/VoIPServer/FreeSoftswitch... ) are very good free alternatives which can be managed also by non-technical people with zero telecom expe…

All free and open source solutions only serve companies up to a couple of hundred employees.

This is a big misconception.

I have experience with Asterisk and the Mizu VoIP softswitch only. Asterisk is quite limited on capacity, but that mizu server can handle 10000 simultaneous calls on a cheap Xeon server (full B2B calls with billing and RTP proxy and all the PBX stuff such as IVR, voicemail, conference).

This capacity is enough for a whole smaller country and these kind of software solutions can be easily scaled.

Of course, you can buy the same capacity 100x more expensive from a hardware vendor.

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