Earlier quoted context omitted.
>It does not require a great deal of imagination to understand that a large corporation and single prospective employee are not equal parties. If you fail to get a job, you will starve. If Comcast fails to hire you, they most clearly will not face an existential crisis. Is Comcast the only company hiring people? If you don't get a job with Comcast you get a job with a different company. That is a market, many sellers…
Comcast is simply the example here. Yes you can look for another employer, but if they are doing the same thing -- requiring disclosure of salary history -- then in aggregate this will put more negotiating power in the hands of employers and thus reduce workers' incomes.
Philadelphia Poised to Ban Employers from Asking Hires About Salary History
101–110 of 244 posts
Re: Philadelphia Poised to Ban Employers from Asking Hires About Salary History
#102(The law is signed, but doesn't go into effect until June.)
Re: Philadelphia Poised to Ban Employers from Asking Hires About Salary History
#103Massachusetts did this last summer. Seems like a strange trend. Not necessarily bad (though it makes things harder for me as a hiring manager) but I wonder what group is pushing for this. Laws don't tend to get passed unless they're backed by special interests.
How does such a law makes things harder for you as a hiring manger?
I think it's a good rule, but it is harder for managers. Especially managers who want to find a cheap hire.
Re: Philadelphia Poised to Ban Employers from Asking Hires About Salary History
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
An OSHA inspector is a government official, performing inspections in the course of their duties to ensure compliance with health and safety regulations; they can only do so as precisely prescribed by said regulations. Along the same lines, it isn't trespassing if the police come to your home with a warrant in accordance with due process to investigate a possible crime. Neither of those serves as precedent to allow a…
So its just a matter of phrasing. If I were to create a governmental body responsible in assisting labor unions in communicating with workers. Then such a representative could be granted that power?
Such communication (unlike the inspection of on-premises equipment and workplace safety, or the investigation of a possible crime) is already readily possible via any number of other means. You are, for instance, already free to stand just outside of such a campus and attempt to communicate with employees there. You can even get a pile of people together with picket signs, and if others agree with you you'll get plenty of sympathy. Employees who are already members of a union are also free to speak to other employees.
You are free to speak; you are not free to force others to listen, or to force others to provide you with a platform to speak from.
Trespassing on a private campus to tell people what organizations they should or shouldn't associate with seems approximately as appropriate (and about as welcome) as trespassing on a private campus to tell them who they should vote for, or to tell them about a product they should buy.
You'd have much better luck getting yet another mandatory notice added to the list of "conspicuously posted" notices, which would serve the same function of communication. On the other hand, what would you even have such a notice say? Those other notices exist to inform people about corresponding laws that exist.
(Strictly speaking, a government can attempt to pass a law giving itself any power it likes. For instance, a government could attempt to pass a law giving itself the power to enter a private residence for some random purpose it thinks important. Such laws can also be overturned by courts in defense of more important rights, such as freedom of association and private property. So saying that "a government could pass a law" doesn't actually constitute an argument.)
(Also worth noting: this entire argument relates solely to an attempt to imbue unions with the force of law and trample other rights in the process; it is unrelated to arguments for or against unions themselves.)
Re: Philadelphia Poised to Ban Employers from Asking Hires About Salary History
#105But of course, what people are paid has nothing to do with the value of their work any longer. Computers and software unfortunately make that socially untenable. They make employees so abundantly productive, and increase that productivity so quickly, that it would have to translate into very high salaries and high annual raises for many, if not most, employees. It doesn't take a genius to look at the average profitability of corporations overall since 1980 to see the meteoric rise coupled with total wage stagnation for non-executives.
Get 2% more productive, then a 2% raise is acceptable. Get 100% more productive, then a comparable raise is unacceptable. Especially if "the computer is doing all the work."
Re: Philadelphia Poised to Ban Employers from Asking Hires About Salary History
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a red herring. You can hold individuals responsible for misleading statements in financial disclosures notwithstanding the fact that individuals indisputably have free speech rights. At the same time, if you can ban a corporation from asking the question about salary history, you should be able to ban a sole proprietorship or partnership from asking the question too.
> You can hold individuals responsible for misleading statements in financial disclosures notwithstanding the fact that individuals indisputably have free speech rights I'm not sure you can be effective if you do it reactively with lawsuits; who can afford to sue a Wall Street bank? You need regulations and rules. Also, the problem is not just misleading statements, but requiring that essential information is include…
Whether it's understandable doesn't matter, you only need to prove that they intentionally mislead you to get you to sign something detrimental to your interests.
>There's a long history of selling bad deals to widows and orphans by confusing them. Currently you can't sell certain things to non-professionals; if they have free speech, can you stop them?
I'm sure there already are laws that prevent/penalize sellers from conning people.
Re: Philadelphia Poised to Ban Employers from Asking Hires About Salary History
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nothing about a free market requires all power dynamics to be equal among all participants - that would be impossible without regulation, and a free market must by definition be free of any regulatory influence.
No, a free market is not defined by absence of regulation! Even fervent laissez-faire economists admit the necessity of appropriate regulations: contract enforcement rules, avoidance of monopolies, a system of law and order for handling disputes, etc. A free market is defined as an exchange where both sides have access to the same information.
Its free as in freedom; to do anything. You are free to ask anyone about anything anytime.
You can do anything except be physical aggresive (like states).
> Even fervent laissez-faire economists admit the necessity of appropriate regulations: contract enforcement rules, avoidance of monopolies, a system of law and order for handling disputes, etc.
All of these has free market solutions.
All of these peope you speak of are not free market supporters. They are statists.
Re: Philadelphia Poised to Ban Employers from Asking Hires About Salary History
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
The State itself can sue the banks for those misleading statements, e.g.: https://www.sec.gov/spotlight/enf-actions-fc.shtml
Yes. The point is that corporations' new 'free speech rights' may interfere with that.
Re: Philadelphia Poised to Ban Employers from Asking Hires About Salary History
#109It is bizarre that so many people tolerate this behavior by employers yet also cling to ideas about compensation being linked to the value of the work being performed (things like 'work hard and you will make more'). If compensation is determined based primarily upon the value of the work being done, prior salary could not be more irrelevant. But of course, what people are paid has nothing to do with the value of the…
Re: Philadelphia Poised to Ban Employers from Asking Hires About Salary History
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Probably because there is a very large disparity in power and information. A few points: 1. You will always need the job more than Comcast will need you (unless you're unusually skilled, most workers aren't) 2. Comcast knows how much the pay every one of their employees, you the job seeker do not. 3. Comcast is only asking so they can figure out the lowest pay you'll accept. You have no way to figure out how high the…
I think all your other points are good, but a response to #4. I think one issue might be that it's ambiguous to enforce. If implemented, could an employer not rephrase the question: "How much would you like to get paid?" and still get away with the same discrimination? Is the final solution here a race to the bottom to normalize wages to prevent perceived discrimination based on non-quantifiable metrics?