Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence • Hacker News Board

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#791

Post by macspoofing » Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 11:40 PM UTC

Fnoord wrote: post #790

macspoofing wrote: post #782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh brother. Neither Hong Kong, nor China is the principal actor in this story. Their role consist of letting him leave despite a passport revocation and an arrest warrant. Who is trying to muddle the point with irrelevant detail? It won't fly here!! // Also, I'm glad there were witnesses of some SD card being destroyed. Good thing we can trust the word of someone who at that point has already stolen deep operational…

You have no proof for any of your conspiracy claims.

Which part? That he stole a massive amount of Intelligence .. not just pertaining to any domestic surveillance program, but deep organizational and operational intelligence? That he defected to Russia? That he met Russian officials in Honk Kong before leaving? That his passport was revoked and arrest warrant was issued before he left Hong Kong, completly invalidating his claim that he ended up in Russia by happenstance? That his defection was sanctioned by Putin and orchestrated by WikiLeaks, both actors now embroiled in an attempt to corrupt American elections?? Those publicaly acknowledged'conspiracy' claims?

Or is it that I just refuse to take his unsubstantiated claims at face value, and that makes me a conspiracy nut?

The guy is the definition of a traitor to his country.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#792

Post by mcv » Fri, Jan 20, 2017, 12:48 AM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #222

mhurron wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classifying material should not be a way for the Government to hide corruption and wrongdoing. Whistle blowing is the only way that prevents that. Chelsea Manning acted on her conscience, which is the best we can expect anyone to do. The governments punishment was to prevent that happening again.

Snowden released a large volume of information to well qualified journalists who very carefully combed through the data to find the things most relevant and important for the American public to know. Information that was legitimately classified and had no whistleblowing value simply wasn't released. Manning released a large volume of information to the public en masse with no regard to it's whistleblowing value. Some…

I agree that Snowden did it about as well as you could possibly hope for a whistleblower exposing classified information. Manning meant well, but was naive and sloppy. Assange started out with good ideas, but seems to have gone mad with power after the Manning leaks. Still, some of the stuff that Manning and Assange leaked, did need to be exposed. It should have been handled more responsibly, but it still needed to be done.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#793

Post by mcv » Fri, Jan 20, 2017, 12:54 AM UTC

hendersoon wrote: post #353

jacobush wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden also had hindsight of sorts, "don't release it to Assange" was probably pretty obvious.

Absolutely. Whether you attribute his superior strategy to learning from Manning's mistake or his own native intelligence, there's simply no doubt that Snowden leaked his data in a more effective and less damaging way.

He learned not just from Manning, but also from Thomas Drake and other NSA whistleblowers before him.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#794

Post by kafkaesq » Fri, Jan 20, 2017, 1:19 AM UTC

gozur88 wrote: post #789

kafkaesq wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that's essentially what Manning did. No, that's not what she did. She gave the archive to a third party (Assange) who turned out to be unreliable. But that's not "the same" -- or even "essentially" the same -- as just outright posting it on Facebook. Can we just end the discussion there, please? I'm not saying this issue is cut-and-dried, or that there's no validity in your arguments. But if we keep going bac…

>No, that's not what she did. She gave the archive to a third party (Assange) who turned out to be unreliable. But that's not "the same" -- or even "essentially" the same -- as just outright posting it on Facebook. Yes it is. Once it's there on the internet, people are linking to it, and it's a topic of discussion, anything that gets you into any kind of trouble is out there for people to see. >Can we just end the di…

If you're really intent on ending a conversation, try not attempting to slip in the last word.

Sounds eminently reasonable. It's all yours, then.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#795

Post by mongmong » Sat, Jan 21, 2017, 2:52 AM UTC

MicroBerto wrote: post #574

mongmong wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that tells me is she was a politician playing the political game. Or do you think it is mutually exclusive to play politics and caring about doing good things with power? Do you think emails between Sanders campaign staff would not be discussing talking points and tactics if their campaign emails were leaked?

I'm upset enough that our politicians take monstrous amounts of money from corporate lobbyists... let alone foreign nations in questionable areas!! That part is unforgivable. Justify it however you want, there was some very chilling revelations in those emails. I want politicians solving problems, not building press angles.

I keep hearing vague mentions of corruption and chilling revelations from these email leaks, but i have never once been given a link to a particular email thread demonstrating this. Care to share a link?

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#796

Post by albedoa » Sat, Jan 21, 2017, 5:53 PM UTC

manarth wrote: post #495

albedoa wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I typed "collateral murder incident" into google and it returned the exact Wikipedia page that pvg told you it would return. Further, when I type "Collateral Murder" into the Wikipedia search, it brings me directly to the page about the airstrike that pvg has repeatedly referenced, anchored at the section about the video. Just what are you trying to pull here? which does include a Wikipedia page, but it's not one tha…

it returned the exact Wikipedia page that pvg told you it would return Which particular wikipedia page is being so thoroughly referenced in this thread? Which particular post in this thread provides a URL? Perhaps you could post the URL of that Wikipedia page? Is it so terribly hard to copy and paste the URL of the page which is being cited? After all, you have referred to this specific Wikipedia page in your comment…

There has to be something seriously wrong with you to want to keep up this charade for so long. At best, you are pathologically dishonest.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#797

Post by EdHominem » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 10:10 PM UTC

scrollaway wrote: post #680

EdHominem wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, focus your outrage on the leaker not the murderers or the cover-up. Neither reason nor morality made our government listen to criticism from within but maybe the pain of suffering these leaks will.

You're mistaking hindsight for outrage.

Nope, the thing that triggered Manning to leak was being told to ignore evidence and collaborate in framing innocent Iraqis for treason.