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The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

greenlab.psych.wisc.edu

71–80 of 87 posts

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#71

It's funny, because we'll talk all day long about how (physical) play is so important to a child's cognitive development, never considering that maybe mentally-focused play is also beneficial. The very fact that video games are so compelling/addictive has given them the reputation of being nonproductive, so we tend to assume that they must give little or no benefit to the individual player.

Games are quite passive in the grand scheme of things and do little to actually challenge cognition. Compared to other basic toys / learning devices, video games don't have compelling research because I don't think it'll work out. There's no 3 dimensional space to work through (Legos), no emotional play (dolls, action figures), visual imagination time (crayons, Play Doh)...on and on and on with better examples that d…

Yes, I believe video games like all interactions with modern _consumer_ electronics have the potential to make you passive, lacking in drive or addicted and jade you emotionally _if you overuse them_. This is becoming increasingly clear to me having spent 10,000+ hours playing video games.

They're insidious in the sense that there's not necessarily anything wrong with the themes on display or that they could not be considered complex, strategic, realistic, imaginative or _in the world they portray_.

It's more the superficial, that is audiovisual via unnatural interfaces, mode of interaction with them that slowly deprives you of the sense of what "the real world" feels like (smell/taste, heat/cold, tactile features, real three-dimensional sight/hearing) if there is or has been no strong counterbalance, i.e. "going outside/into nature", "real socialisation", that could (have) give(n) rise to the meaning or "flavor" of objects and interactions in virtual worlds in the first place. Smartphones are easily one of the worst offenders when it comes to the artificiality and shallowness of the interaction with them and - not owning one - I can only imagine what they do to the young generation...

Additionally they also diminish or at least they don't promote a certain kind of imaginativeness, which is more a flaw of any visual medium: Because everything is laid out for you, there's no need to exert yourself with trying to form mental images in your head or fill in the gaps, especially with modern audio-visuals. This'll become clear whenever you read a book. I'll admit that books are also passive in the sense that you never have to come up with original ideas pertaining to the flow or outcome of the story, but you get the point.

I know that not all games are created equal and several promote the idea of "being creative", "open world", etc, and they're probably less bad in this area, as is evidenced by huge modding communities although it remains unclear to me if those are lead by a tiny percentage of very productive members or if there's a widespread participation.

The epitome of all this are the hugely popular "Let's plays" where you now not even need to play games yourself, but are presented a "performance" by mostly uninteresting/unskilled individuals (my verdict), which seems like something that should never even exist outside maybe game reviews or other, more purposeful activity [1].

The above said, movies and videos are even worse offenders in essentially all of those areas, I suppose, but those were usually of short duration or limited availability, which is not so true anymore either, so a lot of what I wrote applies more strongly to them actually.

I'd even claim that with the non-ending, because largely archived, supply of virtual distractions and increasing consumption of those there's no wonder that, as is my impression (I don't want to go hunting for sources now, but I can speak from experience and refer to plausibility), attention spans are decreasing, as is the capability to for example write clearly and concisely, which would admittedly be a symptom of the former, nor that there's a growing NEET population without drive or goals: The machines and a highly productive creative industry think for you now in more and more areas of living.

[1] Interestingly the most widely watched and subscribed to (and insufferable) YouTuber in that area, PewDiePie, seems to be coming around to the ideas presented in this comment as well: https://youtu.be/osPKCm7jmeQ?t=6m14s

Edit: Reduced self-commenting/removed interjections

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#72
post #54

I was a severe world of warcraft addict and I'm pretty sure it had a permanent effect on my cognition, whether that effect was 'bad' is an open question but there's no doubt in my mind that video games have an enormous effect on your way of thinking.

Your comment needs elaboration. Claims of "permanent cognitive effects" and "enormous effect on way of thinking" surely can be supported with examples. If you can't describe those enormous effects, there's a good chance you simply missed out on social occasions and a bunch of things happening around you outside in your community while you played games, and that void of reality is enough to warrant claims of "enormous…

Tbh I didn't want to say too much about myself but it's sort of useless info anyway.

Mostly it's about the emotional connections I made with people many times my age (at the time), the fact that I was treated based on the way I communicated and prejudice was completely arbitrary (gnomes suck etc.) Basically a lot of intangibles in my way of thinking that developed during that time which would have been significantly different if I had spent that formative time in the physical realm with kids from the same cultural bubble and in the same place mentally.

It made me want to travel, a lot.

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#73
post #2

Having only read the abstract and key points: The question is if video games have a better positive impact on cognitive abilities than other things you could do in the meantime that may also improve other abilities as well. I write this because I quit video games almost entirely a year ago. I played probably 500-700 hours of video games in 2015. I played occasionally simple games on my phone in 2016. The major downsi…

I noted the same pattern in myself and the affects it had on my ability to concentrate and my desire to work for long periods of time to achieve a goal. However I still play games, just specifically games that are slower paced, more story focussed normally puzzle based. Think Myst, Obduction, Deponia, things of that nature.

I found after so long playing quick reward cycle action packed shooters that I couldn't enjoy games like that anymore, and I really wanted to be able to. So it was a conscious decision to try and extend my focus and reward cycle so that I could again. It helped immensely with other things as well. Spending an hour or more to work on my car no longer gets passed over in favour of a few rounds of counter strike for but one example.

Overall I agree with your findings and found just being aware of them has helped me get more out of my brain.

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Games are quite passive in the grand scheme of things and do little to actually challenge cognition. Compared to other basic toys / learning devices, video games don't have compelling research because I don't think it'll work out. There's no 3 dimensional space to work through (Legos), no emotional play (dolls, action figures), visual imagination time (crayons, Play Doh)...on and on and on with better examples that d…

While I strongly agree about the necessity of physical play, I disagree that games in general lack the things you are listing. 3 dimensional space: There are plenty of puzzle games focused on challenging the player to understand how 3D spaces (or higher) are connected. Emotional play: This is one of the main focuses of many RPG:s as well as interactive fiction. Visual imagination: Many games have this at least as a c…

>3 dimensional space/visual imaginiation

These do not even require puzzle/building games, most video games that require the player to move trough a 3D virtual environment train the players ability to "mentally rotate objects" and for "visual imagination" (gotta build a map in your head of that virtual place), in this case the games world.

Many people who regularly play games don't realize this, but keeping oriented in a virtual space is not something many people are good with by nature. It only feels natural to many gamers because they are used to it.

And I'd say anything that involves some kind of "multiplayer" can add emotional play, even more so in games that require coordination between several players on a bigger scale, like MMORPGs. The social drama I've witnessed in games like WoW is some of the worst drama I've ever seen ;)

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#75

It would be more interesting to compare playing video games to other pastimes such as golf, coding, reading, watching tv... I'm surprised no one else noticed the conflict of interest disclaimer: A. R. Seitz is a founder and stakeholder in Carrot Neurotechnology, a company that sells a vision brain game called ULTIMEYES. Carrot, and Seitz as an individual, are involved in a case with the FTC regarding advertising clai…

He sure as shootin named the hizzy out of that game.

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#76
post #2

Having only read the abstract and key points: The question is if video games have a better positive impact on cognitive abilities than other things you could do in the meantime that may also improve other abilities as well. I write this because I quit video games almost entirely a year ago. I played probably 500-700 hours of video games in 2015. I played occasionally simple games on my phone in 2016. The major downsi…

> Having only read the abstract and key points: The question is if video games have a better positive impact on cognitive abilities than other things you could do in the meantime that may also improve other abilities as well. You're right that this is a good question. My guess is that compared to other common activities and hobbies, the answer is yes. Most people aren't spending the bulk of their free time solving ma…

[deleted]

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you cannot play games just for fun, then I definitely see how it can feel like a stressful affair and an unhealthy addiction. And if that's your relationship to games, then not playing them does sound like a very reasonable choice. On the other end of the spectrum, I myself see video games as my big passion and it's a large part of what I do to unwind and have fun. I would estimate that I typically play 10-20 hour…

The idea of unwinding while playing a video game is interesting to me. While I can easily say that I can unwind while playing a video game, I've found that despite my passion for them, when I'm at my most (mentally?) tired they tend to be pretty far down on my list for unwinding. What I've come to realize is that, in general, the games that I personally play are not generally in what I might consider an "unwind" cate…

I definitely understand where you're coming from. I love Bloodborne, but it's really demanding. Which is why I don't play it when I want to relax after work. I play it in the weekend if I feel well rested and up for a challenge.

To unwind after work I gravitate towards RPG:s which let me get lost in the fantasy and forget about this world or FPS games which let me empty my mind and just focus on reflexes and simple tactics. Mario games are also an amazing way to unwind because they let me put intense focus into it without requiring much thought. The repetition of trying to reach the toughest secrets and attempting the same run time and time again for an hour or so feels very therapeutic.

On the other hand, I do play Magic: The Gathering at work during lunch. It may require a lot of thought, but it lets me drop work stuff entirely for an hour so I can come back to it with fresh eyes and new energy after lunch.

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#78
post #2

Having only read the abstract and key points: The question is if video games have a better positive impact on cognitive abilities than other things you could do in the meantime that may also improve other abilities as well. I write this because I quit video games almost entirely a year ago. I played probably 500-700 hours of video games in 2015. I played occasionally simple games on my phone in 2016. The major downsi…

This really resonated with me to the point where I had to stop lurking.

James Gee (who was also at Wisconsin-Madison for a time) has written a fair bit, mostly positive, on learning and games. Here's one of his positive early pieces [1].

But I have a cautionary take which is very similar in spirit to yours. I loved video games as a kid - Double Dragon, Zelda, Mario Kart.. I lost my mom early and in adult retrospect one likely consequence was becoming OCD about save-scumming, because you could go back in time and make things perfect. I'd play Starcraft story-mode until I made it through without losing a single unit. I'd savescum ADOM at a pool until I got enough wishes and all the resistances to feel satisfied. Or Civ to build all the wonders I cared about. Too bad you can't go back in time to get your mom to have a checkup before metastasis. Just need to have enough save states right?

So I continued min-maxing, building optimization functions against built environments and pvping in MUDs, Goldeneye, MMORPGs, Diablos, Hearthstone, and F2P styled mobile games, competing against other players for virtual bits of nothingness, going with the meta or trying to craft counter-metas, making in-game friends and playing with IRL friends and generally having a good time or so I thought.

I finally tossed my gaming baggage while taking my first ever vacation in France with my family last year. I'd recognized the psychological hooks embedded in games for some time but finally realized how ridiculous it was to be conditioned to wake up at 2 AM in the morning (due to timezone differences) to earn timer-based rewards and complete dailies in a mobile app. I was trading off life experiences in a beautiful country with amazing food (and counter to typical stereotypes, very friendly people) for virtual something or others, and enough was enough.

Since going cold turkey, the amount of free time opened up has been an eye-opening. I spend much more quality time with my family without being tired from staying up late. I'm playing music again with friends and in a local community symphony, playing ice hockey and working on skills I'd left behind since high school, reading more books, and in general feeling much more fulfilled.

This isn't a judgement on those who still love and live & breathe games and there are definitely games breathtaking in their imagination and execution. I still thoroughly enjoy Mario Kart with the kids and could easily drop days into Civ 6 if I had the spare time. But I'd like to level up my physical skills for a while. Climb a 5.12, skate like Sid, play and express Brahms, Beethoven, Chopin and (maybe some day) Rachmaninoff like I wish I could.

Some goals in life have a physical timer on them, don't let it run out and lead to regret. There's beauty to be had and made and to be sure, virtual or not, it is fleeting. Yet some skills remain when the power goes out.

[1] - http://www.academiccolab.org/resources/documents/Good_Learni...

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#79
post #45
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competitive video games also make me better at rapid decision making under pressure, prediction, (clear) communication and teamwork. In the same way I could say that drawing and painting only makes you better at drawing and painting.

> In the same way I could say that drawing and painting only makes you better at drawing and painting. Absolutely and it's highly subjective. For years, I prefered playing video games to everything else. But now I'd rather see myself as a painter than a gamer. This is not a question of things being better or worse generally speaking. It's a question what's good for oneself.

I agree. If I no longer had any enjoyment or feeling of improvement in gaming I'd probably find something else too.

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of unwinding while playing a video game is interesting to me. While I can easily say that I can unwind while playing a video game, I've found that despite my passion for them, when I'm at my most (mentally?) tired they tend to be pretty far down on my list for unwinding. What I've come to realize is that, in general, the games that I personally play are not generally in what I might consider an "unwind" cate…

I definitely understand where you're coming from. I love Bloodborne, but it's really demanding. Which is why I don't play it when I want to relax after work. I play it in the weekend if I feel well rested and up for a challenge. To unwind after work I gravitate towards RPG:s which let me get lost in the fantasy and forget about this world or FPS games which let me empty my mind and just focus on reflexes and simple t…

This is completely off the original topic but: by any chance do you use a Japanese-layout keyboard? The colon used in place of the apostrophe indicates you might be doing that. If so: I'm curious as to why. I used to live in Japan and ended up naturally getting used to it when using a laptop bought there, so the colon stuck out to me.

A little more on-topic: Playing MtG during lunch would be nice because it gets you away from a screen for a bit. I find the most refreshing way I can take a break is with a book or some other non-computer related activity. I find that there's something about staring at a screen for a long period of time that seems to take away some ability to focus or something. I can note a clear difference in taking a break between using a phone/computer and not.

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