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The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

greenlab.psych.wisc.edu

61–70 of 87 posts

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#61
post #2

Having only read the abstract and key points: The question is if video games have a better positive impact on cognitive abilities than other things you could do in the meantime that may also improve other abilities as well. I write this because I quit video games almost entirely a year ago. I played probably 500-700 hours of video games in 2015. I played occasionally simple games on my phone in 2016. The major downsi…

I often think about turning my game time into productive time, but my game time is right before bed as de-stresser. I play to relax, socialize, and have fun. I need this time everyday.

I'm not sure your advice applies to most adult gamers. College students and kids addicted to MMO's and pay-to-win garbage, certainly.

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#62
post #2

Having only read the abstract and key points: The question is if video games have a better positive impact on cognitive abilities than other things you could do in the meantime that may also improve other abilities as well. I write this because I quit video games almost entirely a year ago. I played probably 500-700 hours of video games in 2015. I played occasionally simple games on my phone in 2016. The major downsi…

> I can't play video games "for fun". I want to be good and that costs time. Video games have the downside of giving players easy rewards. I think it does something bad to your brain. Not necessarily altering it forever, but at least turning one into a little dopamine junkie.

I'm not sure this adds up. I think I get a dopamine fix when I play simple, relaxing games or games with the difficulty set too low, but not when playing to win. Getting better at StarCraft, for example, requires you practice the same openings over and over while focusing on things that aren't particularly fun. You discover just how lazy the human mind is and then feel bad about it :)

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#63
My experience after over 35 years of hardcore gaming (since I first saw pong).

Largely, video games are about linear optimizations with multiple complex variables in a highly dynamic (borderline chaotic) environment. This approaches the complexity of day to day life, as many people can understand their situation in life. Unlike life, there are known bounds for most games or it takes a finite amount of time to explore these bounds to sufficient understanding to progress in some metric (usually winning ratio, but also APM or K/D ratio).

Frustration is largely a result of RNG punishment (that can FAIL? Why did my mats disappear after my 4 hours of grinding? etc) or participation failure (there were 3 of you and you couldn't handle 1?) or mechanics failure (imba just wrecks everyone) which includes nerfing a mechanic a player relies on. Every now and then you will also see player frustration related to a lack of dextrous skill (bullet hell shooters, fps games, rts apm, etc) or understanding (this game's is just broken! - even though the game is founded around that mechanic being the strongest - i.e. Chess/Queen, Counter Strike/CT pistols > glock).

Like text puzzles or mindgames, video games allow for people to constantly develop strategies and exercise them for a complexity level that is uncommon in human experience. In group settings, the gamers generally come up with solutions to problems (of various quality) quickly and decisively, then will later discuss deeper strategy. Video game trial-and-error trains for that kind of approach and lots of playtime tends to treat indecisiveness as disadvantageous.

Does it make you smarter? Not that I have seen. Does it make you faster? Yes, it trains you to optimize your reaction time at a moment's notice and there is a dopamine feedback loop, even if you are a poor performer. Does it help you long-term in staving off cognitive decline? Probably not directly, but there was a study about constantly challenging your mind to combat decline, iirc.

Those are my thoughts.

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#64
post #2

Having only read the abstract and key points: The question is if video games have a better positive impact on cognitive abilities than other things you could do in the meantime that may also improve other abilities as well. I write this because I quit video games almost entirely a year ago. I played probably 500-700 hours of video games in 2015. I played occasionally simple games on my phone in 2016. The major downsi…

Are there ANY games which improve real-life skills? Games are often said to improve you in some way, to up-skill you, but I'm not sure I've ever seen evidence.

I like to believe that Starcraft has improved my ability to multitask. Also, resource management. I'm able to apply delayed gratification to my army by building stronger units that cost more later by investing more heavily in economy/upgrades/technology early on based on the state of my opponent.

Also, Ultima Online has a bunch of player-run servers. Someone came out with a client that injects packets to the Ultima Online servers, so I was able to learn to write "fault tolerant" programs. It was a huge motivator for me to learn to be a better programmer.

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#65

Summary: ... we need more research... existing studies have flaws... guidelines for kids aren't even based on research... what gov't agency should regulate games? ... some agency should regulate brain-training games. Here's the gem: When it comes to surgeons, "cross-sectional research shows action video game experience is a better predictor of positive surgical outcomes than years of training or number of surgeries p…

I did a quick search and I am actually shocked at how many studies there are on this:

https://www.projectcredo.com/briankung/the-impact-of-videoga...

I expected studies like "Does playing video games improve laparoscopic skills?" but not "Impact of Super Monkey Ball and Underground video games on basic and advanced laparoscopic skill training."

† Disclaimer: I built this site

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#67
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Was it because you were addicted? * What games did you play? * What was missing, what did you end up doing instead? * Was the gaming you did social or not, challenging or not? That you made the right choice for yourself is great, but without any context, no one else can understand why it was good for you. It is likely not a universal truth.

Great point, which hits on the problem of trying to extrapolate from anecdote. In retrospect, I should have clarified more so others can see if their circumstances approximated my own, and if they could then draw similar conclusions (full well recognizing the reliance upon anecdotal evidence to begin with).

[deleted]

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#68
post #2

Having only read the abstract and key points: The question is if video games have a better positive impact on cognitive abilities than other things you could do in the meantime that may also improve other abilities as well. I write this because I quit video games almost entirely a year ago. I played probably 500-700 hours of video games in 2015. I played occasionally simple games on my phone in 2016. The major downsi…

But surely looking at your paintings would be a waste of time that would be better spent learning to paint. No I don't mean that - I don't know your paintings. But supposedly they are works of art, like computer games. What is the justification for their existence, if there are so many more useful things to do? What is the justification for reading a novel? Or watching a movie?

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Games are quite passive in the grand scheme of things and do little to actually challenge cognition. Compared to other basic toys / learning devices, video games don't have compelling research because I don't think it'll work out. There's no 3 dimensional space to work through (Legos), no emotional play (dolls, action figures), visual imagination time (crayons, Play Doh)...on and on and on with better examples that d…

> Games are quite passive in the grand scheme of things and do little to actually challenge cognition. 1. Sure they do, although I admit it depends on the game. I'd say video games are more mentally challenging than school, most of the time. I remember most of grade school being kind of a walkover, whereas the games I played were much more consistently challenging, especially when against other people. 2. If what you…

> I'd take competitive Starcraft as a beneficial cognitive toy over lego any day of the week.

What 8 year olds do you know that are playing competitive Starcraft?

Re: The Impacts of Video Games on Cognition (2015) [pdf]

#70
post #2

Having only read the abstract and key points: The question is if video games have a better positive impact on cognitive abilities than other things you could do in the meantime that may also improve other abilities as well. I write this because I quit video games almost entirely a year ago. I played probably 500-700 hours of video games in 2015. I played occasionally simple games on my phone in 2016. The major downsi…

If you cannot play games just for fun, then I definitely see how it can feel like a stressful affair and an unhealthy addiction. And if that's your relationship to games, then not playing them does sound like a very reasonable choice. On the other end of the spectrum, I myself see video games as my big passion and it's a large part of what I do to unwind and have fun. I would estimate that I typically play 10-20 hour…

The idea of unwinding while playing a video game is interesting to me. While I can easily say that I can unwind while playing a video game, I've found that despite my passion for them, when I'm at my most (mentally?) tired they tend to be pretty far down on my list for unwinding. What I've come to realize is that, in general, the games that I personally play are not generally in what I might consider an "unwind" category. I find that it takes actual mental effort to not only start my favorite games, but it takes effort to play them, causing the initial friction in starting them. And since this is all anecdotal based on my own personal experience, I'll add in some examples and explanation for my personal realization:

* Skullgirls: A fighting game I legitimately want to get good at, so time spent playing it is time spent practicing what I'm bad at or just getting certain combos more consistent. Though to be fair, fighting games in general are not put into a category of games to relax with, it's just one of my top played games right now. * Stardew Valley: I want to play more of this, but there is a LOT going on in this game. Each day the player has to figure out what they're going to focus on for small goals, work toward larger goals, pick from a bunch of different potential activities, etc. And everything done is always time limited both in actual in-game time and stamina, so there's always some kind of pressure to be perfectly efficient. (and I think I've been spoiled in that something happens after a few years in-game, so there's even MORE pressure, gah!) * The Witness: I really want to finish this game, but it's not something to play casually. The puzzles can get brutally difficult, requiring me to keep relatively extensive notes on some of them, and there are a ton of puzzle types to learn without someone telling you how they work, requiring "debugging" of the rules. Generally with highly complicated rules that might require learning a new subtlety to the rules long after the training area. On top of that, there's the "hidden" content that I need to keep my eye out for. * Demon's Souls/Dark Souls/Bloodborne: I don't think I need to explain why these require effort to play. They're hard, require memorization, muscle memory, and gitting gud, with failure requiring you to re-do what can be relatively large levels over and over and over again. But when you beat a boss: that dopamine hit is nuts. * Monster Hunter: Similar category to the Souls games, except there generally aren't large levels, you just have to re-do all the damage you originally did to a monster. Potentially needing to gather more materials for the hunt. Which can take a while. And boy howdy do those monsters NOT want you to hit them in the face with a giant sword. * ...and there are other games that are just not coming to mind right now, but hopefully some kind of point was made.

With the amount of decision making, pressures on the player to perform, things to learn, etc. in games these days, it honestly feels more relaxing most times to do dishes, edit photographs, write, watch some Netflix with my wife, or whatever else there is to do on any given day. Most times I don't play games unless I'm feeling good enough with enough mental stamina to enjoy the challenges posed, or I'm forcing myself to get better at Skullgirls so I don't get crushed in an upcoming tournament.

So yeah, games as a leisure activity is an interesting concept to me ;) I also recommend not taking what I wrote as some kind of negative. I love games! I love playing them, I love talking about them and analyzing them, and someday I'm hoping I can love making them full time like you instead of occasionally working on a side project in my spare time. I just believe they offer more cognitive load in general than seems to get addressed.

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