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U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#461

Post by ensignavenger »

dqv wrote: post #349

Serious question: If it's against the law to have a disproportionate amount of a certain group employed (or paid a certain way), but it's also against the law to discriminate in the hiring process (and in the termination process), how is a company like this supposed to comply? * Hire more of x group - it's illegal because you'd be discriminating against a group to meet the employment quota * Fire x group to equalize…

Apparently, that was one of the arguments made in Contractors Association of Eastern Pennsylvania v. Secretary of Labor[1]; the Supreme Court declined to hear the case.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11246

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#462

Post by oculusthrift »

general_ai wrote: post #391
oculusthrift wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

microsoft has a large office in india and many transfer over to US offices

Could be why. You can't really "transfer over" to US offices easily, however, even if you are already an employee. You have to have an H1b.

like the other poster said, they use L1 which isn't as hard to get

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#463

Post by xyzzyz »

dkersten wrote: post #410
wallace_f wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me a break. You are insane if you think auto mechanics, miners, truck drivers, plumbers, construction workers, landscapers, or working on fishing vessels, or other physically demanding, laborious jobs, are not preferred more by men than women. 5 women and 1 court case (and no lawyer ever set up a lawsuit like that, right?) does not change all of those facts. You need to realize that your worldview and own person…

You are insane if you think auto mechanics, miners, truck drivers, plumbers, construction workers, landscapers, or working on fishing vessels, or other physically demanding, laborious jobs, are not preferred more by men than women. Yeah, and girls prefer pink... How much of this is because of how women are brought up, believing that these are mens jobs, rather than by nature? Women do plenty of physically demanding j…

In poor countries, there are plenty of women doing physically exhausting jobs, but also plenty of women pursuing engineering careers. On the other hand, in many rich countries most jobs have huge gender disparities. It all comes down to the freedom of choice given to people -- if you're rich and you're free to choose what you are going to do, you'll choose whatever you like the most.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#464

Post by [deleted] »

dannypgh wrote: post #419
wallace_f wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use of the word 'never' opened me up to an 'exception to the rule' attack. It was not the most careful word choice, and so I stand corrected that there are 5 women who apparently wanted to work offshore. I'm not talking about 5 women. We're talking about trends. There are always exceptions. OK, so convince me you're right. Ignoring your condescending, short-termpered, dismissive remark based on attacking some minutia…

The first 5 women who are seeking jobs on an all-male oil rig perhaps have a form of bravery that is a couple standard deviations from the median. But if they win their case and help to integrate oil rigs, it seems the next 5 women to seek a job on an oil rig will be easier to find. Fields that are not diverse are less attractive to diversity candidates, but that doesn't mean that diversity candidates wouldn't be int…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#465

Post by omginternets »

sangnoir wrote: post #423
omginternets wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's almost what he's saying, but the devil is in the details. He's saying that within the Black community, there are fewer people who (for whatever reason) have the skills necessary to be a CRUD developer. Reasons may include, but are not limited to: - poverty and access to education - cultural factors pertaining to the value of higher education - cultural factors pertaining to the types of jobs that are valued (e…

So which of the reasons did you cite is responsible for their lack of success with the NBA? Whether it was intended or not, OP was dog-whistling the genetics argument, which I do not buy.

>Whether it was intended or not, OP was dog-whistling the genetics argument, which I do not buy.

Again, no it wasn't, and even if it were it does not change the veracity of my (more nuanced) rendition.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#466

Post by pitaj »

blazespin wrote: post #140
SamUK96 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather daft comment. And these companies haven't "gone crazy". There is zero evidence for that. Also, exact quotas is discriminatory by definition . You are, by definition, hiring and/or not hiring somebody because of their race, which itself is becoming a rather tenuous concept in itself due to globalisation (mixing of races).

Without these sorts of rules than it's a free for all. I have zero evidence except life experience to say that if people could hire their preferred tribe, they would. The homogeneous work culture alone would probably be very effective. But wow, what a horrendous world to live in. I mean, seriously, you kids have no idea.

That's discrimination based on culture, not on race, though.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#467

Post by rudolf0 »

bubbleRefuge wrote: post #63
rudolf0 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, for one, you can hide contact info from a resume (which is still stored in a system somewhere, with a unique ID). And you can also make the early stages of your interview email or text-chat based (or just a Google Doc, like some companies do), to eliminate any potential bias in things that can be inferred from voice like accent, region, and gender. Obviously once they're on-site for an interview, you can't anon…

Well, I can tell the way sentences are formed in many cases if I'm dealing with a native speaker or not.

But whether someone is a native speaker is a trait that someone can legally and rightfully discriminate over. It's perfectly reasonable to reject someone if you think their English skills aren't sufficiently good. It's not reasonable or legal to reject them just because they were born in a different country.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#468

Post by jnky »

smnscu wrote: post #415
sokoloff wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent The "tell" that I'm primarily relying upon is that you often drop articles where a US-native speaker would use them. Just one example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13197570 (that was as far back as I went) I think most native US speakers would use "the gun industry" and "the film industry". Several later comments drop an "an" or "a" article as well. You also have a habit of using a comma splice rather…

That was an incredibly obvious example. My favorite telltale sign for native English speakers is the rampant misspelling of trivialities like it(')s, you(')r(e), etc. I've seen so many well educated peers fail at basic grammar, or misspelling common words (e.g. electrisity, from a CS undergrad) that I'm comfortable making this generalization.

My favorite sign for native English speakers is "could of" instead of "could have"/"could've".

I have never witnessed that mistake with non native English speakers.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#469

Post by davidf18 »

davidf18 wrote: post #285

A woman, Safra Catz, was co-president and is now co-CEO which means that they are accusing a woman of discriminating against women.

Intersting. Why downvote a true statement? Anything to contribute to the fact that the government is suing a company led by a woman for discriminating against women?

By suing Oracle the government is basically saying that Safra Cats is discriminating against women.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#470

Post by nitwit005 »

swframe2 wrote: post #195

I worked at Oracle in 1992-1998. I hired a white male employee who complained later that I was hiring too many indian employees. I went backed to look at the applicants and noticed that 90% of them were indian and that I'd contacted every non-indian applicant. I'm not white or indian so I was very eager to make sure I was being fair. My non-scientific conclusion after working at a lot of other companies is that very…

It might also just be that it is a bigger and older company, which entices a different group of people.

I have noticed some ethnic bias in hiring for test/quality engineering roles. My working theory is that, for cultural reasons, some people are mostly looking to work for a big firm, and are thus happy in such a role. The rest think of it as too dull sounding.

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