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Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

nytimes.com

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Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#671

Post by general_ai »

dragonwriter wrote: post #332
hendersoon wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no record of any individual being physically harmed, but the leaked diplomatic cables were highly embarrassing, hurt the interests of the US, and were completely unjustified. They weren't exposing malfeasance or war crimes. They should not have been released. Manning did it wrong, Snowden did it right.

> Manning did it wrong, Snowden did it right. AFAIK, both Manning and Snowden released large quantities of information without reviewing all of it in detail for public interest vs. potential harm, and released it not to the public but to third parties that managed public release. The difference is that Manning released it to Assange and Snowden released it to more responsible journalists.

>> The difference is that Manning released it to Assange and >> Snowden released it to more responsible journalists.

As we all know by now, it's illegal to read the leaks unless they're on CNN. "Responsible" journalists from CNN told us as much.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#672

Post by EdHominem »

l33tbro wrote: post #370
rudolf0 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Little unethical behavior was actually leaked, though. The killing of the Reuters journalists probably should've been leaked since there was a sort of cover-up (government refused to give Reuters the video or concrete details), so I'll give her that. But the rest was basically just normal communications. I think she's served more than enough jail time, but this didn't really seem like a conscience-driven whistleblowi…

Could you please elaborate on this? I recently had dinner with a friend in intelligence, who was trying to convince me that Snowden was in bed with Russia from the get-go, and that the 90% of the leak had nothing to do with privacy concerns. I took his opinions with a grain of salt given his background, but also couldn't refute due to being relatively unfamiliar with the Snowden saga.

Your friend is full of shit. If they knew anything real they wouldn't be allowed to tell you.

The biggest clue that what your friend says is wrong that Snowden wouldn't have gone public and announced himself if he was spying for Russia.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#673

Post by dandare »

I was always missing a single website dedicated to the outcome of Manning's leaks. Listing cause by cause in a clear design that can be posted as a reply to all that say what Manning did was wrong. Maybe one day I will build such website and I will start with this list: https://www.thenation.com/article/long-list-what-we-know-tha...

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#675

Post by golergka »

enraged_camel wrote: post #664
golergka wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And right after watching this video, I understood that Manning really deserved the sentence. This is war. The video clearly shows that soldiers made a decision made on an honest, although tragic, mistake. They have to make this kind of decisions all the time - and I fail to see how anyone can say, from information that was available to them, that the decision was in any way wrong. The fact that this story had to be c…

>>This is war. The video clearly shows that soldiers made a decision made on an honest, although tragic, mistake. Um, they fired on a van despite realizing that it had come to pick up the wounded. Geneva Conventions clearly state that hospitals, both fixed and mobile, ambulances, hospital ships, medical aircraft, and medical personnel are not to be fired upon. https://youtu.be/5rXPrfnU3G0?t=9m10s (You'll also note th…

> hospitals, both fixed and mobile, ambulances, hospital ships, medical aircraft, and medical personnel are not to be fired upon

This van didn't have any markings to indicate that it was a dedicated medical unit. What about enemy combatants that are performing medical tasks at the moment? As far as I understand, they're fair game.

> (You'll also note the trigger-happy attitude of the gunner. He kept begging for permission to engage, and at one point got pretty frustrated that he was having to wait. Like the OP said: chilling.)

He was looking at people, that (in his view, conceived by a completely honest mistake) were there to kill his comrades in arms. His attitude, being eager to kill them, is completely reasonable — war is a constant kill or be killed situation, and allowing your enemy to evacuate the wounded combatants mean that they will later come back and kill you or your comrades in arms.

Once again, your reaction confirms my main point: the general public doesn't bother to think the situation through and judges actions made in war without the necessary context. Which just confirms that this kind of transparency is just as good as determining whether or not climate change is real (or if vaccination is harmful) through general election without any minimal education requirements.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#676

Post by zemanel »

grandalf wrote: post #598
wallace_f wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can sleep a lot better tonight having read this thread of thoughts after some of the awfulness I just read over at reddit. With this issue there is a remarkable degree of misinformation, as well as fascist ideology supporting the the surveillance state. These neverending, unechecked powers undermine civil rights and allow human rights abuses to go continue. And it's all wrapped in this package of 'a good liberal ju…

> I cannot understand how people do not fight back in solidarity with outrage against human and civil rights abuses I think there is a very sad aspect of human nature which makes humans bow before power.

It's called mortality :) people have X years to live and try to make the best of it and not everyone is ready to sacrifice that time for doing the right thing.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#678

Post by rjeli »

KirinDave wrote: post #649
MicroBerto wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is everyone here forgetting the millions given by foreign nations?? The outright collusion with media? The lack of sensitivity to LGBT rights? The fact that they never discussed how to actually solve the Nation's problems, only worked on crafting a message to the public, and having "public and private" policies? The family connections to Russia that everyone conveniently ignores lately? Or most chilling of all, the c…

> Is everyone here forgetting the millions given by foreign nations?? Not terribly, since we can see where a lot of it went and we're not terribly upset with the outcomes? > The outright collusion with media? Yeah emails that emails went emails really emails well emails, right emails? > The lack of sensitivity to LGBT rights? Clinton has a mixed track record on LGBT rights, but I trust her infinitely more than I do T…

> Did you use your pizzagate decoder ring to figure out where they hid the girls yet?

I miss detox "week".

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#679

Post by stonogo »

bluehex wrote: post #635
dcposch wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's becoming increasingly common. Personally I think esoteric pronouns like "ve" are a silly idea that won't catch on, but I like the idea of using "they" as a gender neutral way to refer to one or more people. It's a straightforward expansion of the current usage: as a gender neutral way to refer to two or more people.

My problem with "they" is that it's overloading the plural pronoun and using it like a singular. This can cause confusion, for example, it makes the comment we're discussing a bit hard to read when in one sentence "they" means Manning and in the next sentence "they" means the government.

You mean they're making the third person work more like the second person? However shall we survive the chaos

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#680

Post by scrollaway »

EdHominem wrote: post #666
smallnamespace wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She had no control over what Wikileaks would do Then she should've released it to someone else. She is ultimately responsible for deciding to give it to Wikileaks.

Yeah, focus your outrage on the leaker not the murderers or the cover-up. Neither reason nor morality made our government listen to criticism from within but maybe the pain of suffering these leaks will.

You're mistaking hindsight for outrage.
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