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Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

nytimes.com

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Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#551

Post by gozur88 »

kafkaesq wrote: post #537
gozur88 wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing to do with corruption. People talk even without getting paid. Not everyone realizes what they're saying is important or will become important in the future. Most of the time it's just background information. Also, there's not necessarily an element of "great personal risk". It may just be social or embarrassment or minor damage to a career. If some flunky at a Peruvian consulate has a bit too much to…

"Man, I really need to watch what I say to the Americans." Given the degree of subterfuge the US has facilitated in many of these countries, over the years -- most of these folks already knew that.

Everybody knows what you say to a diplomat from any country is going to get written down. But there's always been a tacit agreement that not everything gets shared with the world.

And I think you're mostly jumping at shadows here. Diplomacy is a lot less interesting and less nefarious than you seem to believe.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#552

Post by philliphaydon »

djsumdog wrote: post #32

Seven years is still a long time for whistle blowing. I'm glad to see she is still getting released though. It's important to note commuting the sentence is not a pardon. Chelsea will still have this conviction for the rest of her life. I know there is a lot of controversy with Manning compared to Wikileaks et. al. as far as not redacting documents or using a discriminating news source to filter them. Still, I oppose…

Manning will be released May this year tho. It's 35 years which includes time already served (7) and she was due for release in 2040.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#553

Post by etjossem »

grzm wrote: post #546
etjossem wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not on board with categorically downvoting incivility, even on that last bastion of civil discourse we call HN. While we may feel uncomfortable hearing from someone who is upset, it's hard to deny that we notice them more - and that can be very important for those whose voice isn't very loud in the community otherwise. To the empathetic, an uncivil outcry can serve as a stinging reminder that their behavior has…

Thanks for the MLK quote! I agree with the spirit of it, and personally struggle to understand where the balance is between order and justice. though I think there's a meaningful distinction to be made between "set a timetable for another man's freedom" and trying to figure out what ways are effective in making change. I'm not encouraging anyone to wait. I'm encouraging people to do what's effective. MLK was also ver…

A downvote, whether it's because of tone or message, is a way to say "this comment has no place here." Enough of them concentrated on one message will censor it from everyone else's view.

All I ask is that we be careful about using that tool, particularly against a "freedom from" position that has historically been given few venues.

I believe trans people should have freedom from misgendering, because being in an environment in which you are constantly humiliated and disrespected can have negative psychological effects. As a white guy who doesn't suffer through this, I can afford to play it safe when I talk about it, because I am not directly impacted by how well my message is heard.

There are also some people who can't afford to play it safe. They need to talk about this, even if it is emotional or tough for them. If anything, they deserve to be heard more than I do. I want to make HN a place where they feel like they have a seat at the table, so I don't mind it when they meet what they perceive as incivility with a fire of their own.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#554

Post by iainmerrick »

lione wrote: post #480
stvswn wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the date of Manning's release (May 17th) is international LGBT day

Or, as they say in the article, that's 4 months from now, a somewhat reasonable time (considering it could have been 28 years and 4 months) to finish everything up, get her affairs on the outside settled, and all the bureaucracy done.

But why does she have to remain in prison until then? Can't they at least put her in the equivalent of "gardening leave"?

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#555

Post by uybiuubfdui »

adrienne wrote: post #506
kjbflsudfb wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet I see multiple HN commenters discussing this topic. It may not be how you would prefer it be discussed; however, this is how people become educated. I think the mistake here is to reply to civil comments in an uncivil way because you don't feel that they are appropriately aware of trans issues. I would think anyone who wants to help educate others on these issues would welcome such a discussion.

Misgendering people is uncivil . It is insulting and dehumanizing. Why don't you start requiring civilty from your fellow HN commenters, rather than just me?

You come off as an extremely immature person.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#556

Post by etjossem »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #541
etjossem wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You betcha. From "Facts regarding the unauthorized storage and disclosure of the 12 July 2007 aerial weapons team or AW team video", a statement by Manning to the US Army: The video depicted several individuals being engaged by an aerial weapons team. At first I did not consider the video very special, as I have viewed countless other war porn type videos depicting combat. However, the recording of audio comments by…

Well I read his statement and its definitely interesting. It doesn't really help his case though. Some of his actions he was acting as a whistleblower (releasing videos of civilian deaths), other actions he was acting as someone who simply felt information should be leaked (diplomatic cables and such). The problem is that these were separate acts and so while he may have been a whistleblower for some of the releases,…

I would argue Snowden's approach - working with the most reputable news outlets in the US to release only what was necessary - serves as a good example of ethical whistleblowing. Nonetheless, the intelligence community wanted him arrested after the NSA slides went public, and he will still be arrested if he sets foot back in the United States.

Whistleblowers in the US government can and do go to prison, regardless of whether they're responsible about it or not. I think clemency in this case (shortening the sentence for disclosure of the cables to 7 years) is the least the President could have done.

Please use "she," by the way. Chelsea's gender and correct pronoun are some of the most well-known in the world by now. Nobody can claim ignorance anymore.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#557

Post by imron »

headcanon wrote: post #13

how much you wanna bet that Julian Assange will conveniently forget his agreement to be extradited if Manning gets pardoned? https://www.yahoo.com/news/assange-agrees-extradition-us-rel...

Don't bet too much:

"Assange lawyer @themtchair on Assange-Manning extradition 'deal': "Everything that he has said he's standing by.""

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/821528189625372672

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#558

Post by MicroBerto »

afterburner wrote: post #172
djsumdog wrote: post #32

Seven years is still a long time for whistle blowing. I'm glad to see she is still getting released though. It's important to note commuting the sentence is not a pardon. Chelsea will still have this conviction for the rest of her life. I know there is a lot of controversy with Manning compared to Wikileaks et. al. as far as not redacting documents or using a discriminating news source to filter them. Still, I oppose…

"the Hillary e-mails are actually very chilling when you start reading through them" What chilled you, specifically?

Is everyone here forgetting the millions given by foreign nations?? The outright collusion with media? The lack of sensitivity to LGBT rights? The fact that they never discussed how to actually solve the Nation's problems, only worked on crafting a message to the public, and having "public and private" policies? The family connections to Russia that everyone conveniently ignores lately? Or most chilling of all, the cryptic codespeak used in several emails?

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#559

Post by wallace_f »

mcv wrote: post #423
DonHopkins wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that the US murdered innocent civilians was highly embarrassing and hurt the interests of the US, not the fact that Manning leaked that information itself. Punish the murderers, not the messengers. The only people were actually harmed were the innocent children and journalists on the receiving end of US machine guns.

This exactly. Governments do need to be held accountable for secret crimes, secrecy should not be allowed to enable continuing those crimes. Exposing them was necessary, even if it was illegal. I do think Manning was naive and sloppy for handing the whole thing over to Assange, though in her defense, Assange seemed fairly reasonable and responsible at the time. It's only after this enormous leak that he seems to have…

I can sleep a lot better tonight having read this thread of thoughts after some of the awfulness I just read over at reddit.

With this issue there is a remarkable degree of misinformation, as well as fascist ideology supporting the the surveillance state. These neverending, unechecked powers undermine civil rights and allow human rights abuses to go continue. And it's all wrapped in this package of 'a good liberal just supporting the good guys like Obama and Hillary that evil Assange is trying to destroy.' Assange is far from perfect, but I cannot understand how people do not fight back in solidarity with outrage against human and civil rights abuses.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#560

Post by panic »

rabidrat wrote: post #288
adrienne wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manning is a woman; is there some reason you're calling her a "they"?

"He" is the pronoun that was used in their past, "she" is the pronoun for the present. When we're talking about the past+present for this person, I think "they" is not unreasonable. At least, it's more reasonable than trying to call someone out for their pronoun usage when the discussion is about a much more serious topic.

Really, it's ok, you can call her "she"! It's not going to hurt you, and it'll help trans people everywhere feel a little less shitty reading this website.
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