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Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

nytimes.com

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Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#531

Post by kafkaesq »

peteretep wrote: post #524
kafkaesq wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who didn't already know all of that in broad strokes? I guess that argument could be applied to high crimes and corruption of all sorts, just about anywhere: "We already know about that in broad strokes. What good does it do to air all that dirty laundry before the general public?"

> high crimes Which these weren't. There's about as much public benefit in knowing how exactly Gaddafi was corrupt as there is in known just how many women Tom Cruise has slept with. cf: Public Interest

There's about as much public benefit in knowing how exactly Gaddafi was corrupt as there is in known just how many women Tom Cruise has slept with.

This is, quite frankly, a bizarre equivalence to make.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#532

Post by shalmanese »

cdubzzz wrote: post #254

> “Mr. Snowden fled into the arms of an adversary, and has sought refuge in a country that most recently made a concerted effort to undermine confidence in our democracy.” What an amazingly loaded statement that is. Russia is just a straight up "adversary" now? Infuriating.

It's also worth noting that the only reason Snowden is currently in Russia is due to actions by the US State Department. Snowden left Hong Kong with a plane ticket to Cuba by way of Moscow. While he was on the plane, the US State Department revoked his passport, forcing him to miss his connecting flight. To make it seem like it was in any way a deliberate choice on his part is rewriting history.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#533

Post by etjossem »

sheraz wrote: post #525
etjossem wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manning has felt female since 2009 and possibly earlier. While on leave, she was incredibly comfortable with this gender identity, "trying to blend in as a bored woman looking for something interesting to do even though I was actually exhilarated." After the leaks (but before going to prison), she wrote: "I wouldn't mind going to prison for the rest of my life [for leaking information], or being executed so much, if…

Feeling female and actually being one are two very different things. I do not deny that gender dysphoria is a clinical diagnosis, but that does not mean we should enable an unhealthy behavior. Rather, it is something that should be treated, and I do not think that self-mutilation is the answer (especially when funded by tax payers). Furthermore, all of this because of his "feelings"?? Are you kidding me? The west is…

> Feeling female and actually being one are two very different things.

Feeling female can be an early indication that you are a woman.

> I do not deny that gender dysphoria is a clinical diagnosis, but that does not mean we should enable an unhealthy behavior.

On the off chance you actually care about Chelsea Manning's health, please stop referring to her as "he."

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#534

Post by 3legcat »

mhurron wrote: post #95
rthomas6 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings on this. Manning did commit a crime. They were entrusted with classified information and they released it on purpose. For all of the corruption and wrongdoing the release of those cables uncovered, didn't it also do things like give away the positions of some undercover agents? And harm US diplomatic relations with other countries? Look at it from the POV of the government: How could they not pu…

Classifying material should not be a way for the Government to hide corruption and wrongdoing. Whistle blowing is the only way that prevents that. Chelsea Manning acted on her conscience, which is the best we can expect anyone to do. The governments punishment was to prevent that happening again.

"Chelsea Manning acted on her conscience"

Acting on her conscience does not make what she did the right thing to do.

For example, the 2 men behind the boston marathon bombing, did what they did based on their conscience. Did that make what they did right?

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#535

Post by adrienne »

grzm wrote: post #504
etjossem wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The volume of downvotes and hate comments you are getting for standing up on this issue is disturbing. I hope some of those commenters eventually reconsider whether the acceptance of disrespectful pronouns on HN is truly the cause they want to be known for.

I honestly believe the majority of the downvotes are because of tone, not position. As for hate comments in response to any of 'adrienne's in this thread, I see three that are very uncivil and have been flagged dead (and won't appear unless you have showdead on). Another is arguably uncivil and has also received a net negative votes. If you have a separate tally, please point it out. That's not to say all of the down…

If people are downvoting me for incivilty, they should also be downvoting all the misgendering, which is fundamentally uncivil no matter how calm and even the tone in which it is done.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#536

Post by kordless »

notahacker wrote: post #467
kordless wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which means Assange knew it was a double bind when he said what he said. They never tried to extradite him, even if it was implied. This now means that everyone expects the US to extradite him, which is what they were trying to avoid to begin with by extraditing him to Sweden. And, if they do extradite him, the US will have to come up with a reason why they didn't to begin with. Brilliant move and interesting timing.…

Why would the US show the slightest inclination to change to its longstanding policy of not showing any interest in extraditing Assange based on a tweet?

That is an unanswerable question, given the current lack of data.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#537

Post by kafkaesq »

gozur88 wrote: post #502
kafkaesq wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then maybe you shouldn't (repeatedly, incessantly, decade after decade) engage so shamelessly with forces of corruption and darkness such it that inspires people to take great personal risk to expose that information.

This has nothing to do with corruption. People talk even without getting paid. Not everyone realizes what they're saying is important or will become important in the future. Most of the time it's just background information. Also, there's not necessarily an element of "great personal risk". It may just be social or embarrassment or minor damage to a career. If some flunky at a Peruvian consulate has a bit too much to…

"Man, I really need to watch what I say to the Americans."

Given the degree of subterfuge the US has facilitated in many of these countries, over the years -- most of these folks already knew that.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#538

Post by plugger »

kordless wrote: post #449
Analemma_ wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know these days we're all treating it as an established fact that Sweden's extradition request for Assange is actually a cover for him to be further extradited to the United States, but it has never actually been proven.

Which means Assange knew it was a double bind when he said what he said. They never tried to extradite him, even if it was implied. This now means that everyone expects the US to extradite him, which is what they were trying to avoid to begin with by extraditing him to Sweden. And, if they do extradite him, the US will have to come up with a reason why they didn't to begin with. Brilliant move and interesting timing.…

What happens if the US accepts his offer, extradites him to the US, and then immediately extradites him to Sweden at their request? It would effectively blow up his continual insistence that the Swedish extradition is nothing more than a smokescreen to get him to the US.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#539

Post by boomboomsubban »

andrewflnr wrote: post #312
rbanffy wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Manning released a large volume of information to the public en masse No. She leaked the documents to Wikileaks, who decided to publish them uncensored. She had no control over what Wikileaks would do. Other media outlets opted not to release information they considered dangerous. And, as @mhurron pointed out, there is no record of someone who was harmed by that information being released.

She had this much control over what WikiLeaks would do: she could have given them less.

How much time do you think someone on active duty in Iraq has to sort through data?

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#540

Post by plugger »

wnevets wrote: post #270

What exactly did Manning blow the whistle on? While Snowden exposed what he believed was illegal spying on Americans, Manning just leaked a bunch of classified information about war that he/she believed was immoral .

Did you watch Collateral Murder?
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