Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 797 posts

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#111

Post by kyleblarson »

464192002d7fe1c wrote: post #65
notpc wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been reported in the news for the last month that Obama has no intention of retiring from public life. He's going to be a major spokesman and "spiritual leader" of sorts for the Democrats going forward. The reason is that the Democrats don't have a good "bench." Most of the Democrats remaining in positions of power are creatures of big-city machine politics, not exactly likable populists who can counter Trump.

I hope Obama stays around. He's done so well at building up the Democratic party in the past 8 years, here's hoping he stays around and does the same thing for the next 8!

Obama's legacy in 3 words: President Donald Trump

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#112

Post by chiph »

akjainaj wrote: post #53

Why can the US president meddle with the sentence of a convict? Isn't that against the separation of powers? Not that I have anything against this guy Manning in particular, just asking why is this "tolerable" in a democracy. Isn't it a risk, that the president can pardon whoever he wants?

> Isn't it a risk, that the president can pardon whoever he wants?

You're probably too young to remember the kerfuffle when Ford pardoned Nixon. Lots of allegations that it had been planned in advance. And it is likely a big reason why Ford lost his election campaign in 1976.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon_of_Richard_Nixon

The interesting thing in that article is that a pardon carries an implication of guilt, and accepting a pardon carries a confession of guilt (Burdick v. United States). So if Chelsea had offered and accepted a pardon, her reputation would have been negatively affected, unlike if she had been found innocent at the courts martial.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#113

Post by noobermin »

mikeash wrote: post #70
blhack wrote: post #2

Good. I wish that he would just pardon her, though. I don't want the next administration to somehow undo this.

Wouldn't it be outrageously unconstitutional to undo this?

Well given Trump's recent skirting around the emoluments clause...

Let's hope he doesn't do that.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#114

Post by arbitrage »

LordKano wrote: post #100

Commuting Manning's sentence without pardoning Snowden feels like politics to me. Manning's actions embarrassed the Bush administration so Obama will commute. Snowden's actions embarrassed the Obama administration so Obama won't pardon.

Chelsea Manning stood trial. Edward Snowden did not.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#115

Post by cm2187 »

chollida1 wrote: post #11

It's been said that one person's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. > The files she copied also included about 250,000 diplomatic cables from American embassies around the world showing sensitive deals and conversations, dossiers detailing intelligence assessments of Guantánamo detainees held without trial, and a video of an American helicopter attack in Baghdad in two Reuters journalists were killed, among othe…

But whistle blowing on what? That the US diplomacy has secret conversations with every one, negiciates deals, and collect information locally in confidence? That's pretty much their job description. What did Manning whistlebow on?

Leaking confidential information isn't whistleblowing.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#116

Post by problems »

tomp wrote: post #102
problems wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're knowledgable enough to censor the documents yourself before release, that's the way to go. Not everyone has perfect knowledge. Releasing only to journalists and stuff is a fairly good method too, but maybe create unnecessary exposure. Manning also went for a bulk dump strategy rather than being selective. Ultimately when you're dealing with a lot of data, that might be the only reasonable way to get it, but…

Snowden was very selective, and look where that got him...

Oh yeah, for sure. You aren't getting around the nasty governmental environment towards whistleblowsers. Just improving your image in the eye of some people and your odds if it does come down to a legal matter, really.

Running, like Snowden did is really your best bet there I think. He's pretty much the textbook example of how to do this in the most correct way possible and still keep some degree of freedom for yourself. If you're willing to be a martyr, then you can stand up for that. Some people insist you must.

But I'm more than willing to accept both that someone finds something egregiously offensive that needs to be publicized, but also wants to keep their freedom.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#117

Post by bjourne »

djsumdog wrote: post #32

Seven years is still a long time for whistle blowing. I'm glad to see she is still getting released though. It's important to note commuting the sentence is not a pardon. Chelsea will still have this conviction for the rest of her life. I know there is a lot of controversy with Manning compared to Wikileaks et. al. as far as not redacting documents or using a discriminating news source to filter them. Still, I oppose…

> I oppose state secrets and the Hillary e-mails are actually very chilling when you start reading through them.

Weren't they from the DNC leak? The DNC is not affiliated with the US state. I read some of the mails, and I found nothing chilling so I'm curious to know what chilling mails you found.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#118

Post by mrb »

rthomas6 wrote: post #72
djsumdog wrote: post #32

Seven years is still a long time for whistle blowing. I'm glad to see she is still getting released though. It's important to note commuting the sentence is not a pardon. Chelsea will still have this conviction for the rest of her life. I know there is a lot of controversy with Manning compared to Wikileaks et. al. as far as not redacting documents or using a discriminating news source to filter them. Still, I oppose…

I have mixed feelings on this. Manning did commit a crime. They were entrusted with classified information and they released it on purpose. For all of the corruption and wrongdoing the release of those cables uncovered, didn't it also do things like give away the positions of some undercover agents? And harm US diplomatic relations with other countries? Look at it from the POV of the government: How could they not pu…

"How could they not punish Manning?"

But she was punished. With 7 years that she already spent in jail. I don't think that reducing her sentence from 35 years to 7 years "encourage others to leak".

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#119

Post by wbl »

notpc wrote: post #18

Manning indiscriminately leaked tons of diplomatic cables, as part of a personal vendetta against the US Army. It is without contention that the vast majority of the leaked cables revealed nothing that anyone considers wrongdoing. This wasn't the act of a whistle blower. It was the cowardly act of someone who put their own petty fantasies ahead of their solemn duty to protect the information they were entrusted with…

Or it's Obama recognizing that someone with mental health issues the military is ill-equipped to address who has been in custody for seven years has been punished enough. Lawfare is not a bastion of liberalism, but has suggested enough is enough. Let's save the life sentences for the Walkers.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#120

Post by TillE »

cm2187 wrote: post #92
djsumdog wrote: post #32

Seven years is still a long time for whistle blowing. I'm glad to see she is still getting released though. It's important to note commuting the sentence is not a pardon. Chelsea will still have this conviction for the rest of her life. I know there is a lot of controversy with Manning compared to Wikileaks et. al. as far as not redacting documents or using a discriminating news source to filter them. Still, I oppose…

Whistle blowing requires the knowledge of wrong doing, and exposing these wrong doings. As far as I am aware that guy leaked the data in bulk without looking at it, and without any knowledge of the US diplomacy, and the leaks didn't expose any major wrongdoing. Only some gory videos, that don't really teach us anything (everyone knows bombs make "collateral damages", the US army even maintains statistics on them). An…

> Only some gory videos, that don't really teach us anything (everyone knows bombs make "collateral damages"

So you've never actually watched (or read about) the Collateral Murder video, huh? It's a helicopter crew killing people with guns, not bombs. And they kill exactly who they intend to.

Maybe don't form strong opinions when you don't have the slightest clue what the facts are.

Post reply on HN