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Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

nytimes.com

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Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#101

Post by _delirium »

rthomas6 wrote: post #72
djsumdog wrote: post #32

Seven years is still a long time for whistle blowing. I'm glad to see she is still getting released though. It's important to note commuting the sentence is not a pardon. Chelsea will still have this conviction for the rest of her life. I know there is a lot of controversy with Manning compared to Wikileaks et. al. as far as not redacting documents or using a discriminating news source to filter them. Still, I oppose…

I have mixed feelings on this. Manning did commit a crime. They were entrusted with classified information and they released it on purpose. For all of the corruption and wrongdoing the release of those cables uncovered, didn't it also do things like give away the positions of some undercover agents? And harm US diplomatic relations with other countries? Look at it from the POV of the government: How could they not pu…

Obama doesn't seem to completely disagree, since he didn't pardon her. He instead commuted the sentence from 35 years to 7 years' imprisonment. In my personal opinion that's still too long for the crime, but it's at least less completely insane than 35 years.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#102

Post by tomp »

problems wrote: post #25
chollida1 wrote: post #11

It's been said that one person's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. > The files she copied also included about 250,000 diplomatic cables from American embassies around the world showing sensitive deals and conversations, dossiers detailing intelligence assessments of Guantánamo detainees held without trial, and a video of an American helicopter attack in Baghdad in two Reuters journalists were killed, among othe…

If you're knowledgable enough to censor the documents yourself before release, that's the way to go. Not everyone has perfect knowledge. Releasing only to journalists and stuff is a fairly good method too, but maybe create unnecessary exposure. Manning also went for a bulk dump strategy rather than being selective. Ultimately when you're dealing with a lot of data, that might be the only reasonable way to get it, but…

Snowden was very selective, and look where that got him...

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#103

Post by cowardlydragon »

djsumdog wrote: post #32

Seven years is still a long time for whistle blowing. I'm glad to see she is still getting released though. It's important to note commuting the sentence is not a pardon. Chelsea will still have this conviction for the rest of her life. I know there is a lot of controversy with Manning compared to Wikileaks et. al. as far as not redacting documents or using a discriminating news source to filter them. Still, I oppose…

7 years isolation, not just 7 years

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#104

Post by rtkwe »

akjainaj wrote: post #69
hsod wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually explicitly in the Constitution: "The President...shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment." Article II, Section 2

So it's only possible if it was something that was done against the US?

'Against the US' is broad and imprecise. From the DOJ's web page on executive clemency.

> “The President . . . shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.” Thus, the President’s authority to grant clemency is limited to federal offenses and offenses prosecuted by the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia in the name of the United States in the D.C. Superior Court. An offense that violates a state law is not an offense against the United States.

https://www.justice.gov/pardon/frequently-asked-questions-co...

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#105

Post by andrewbinstock »

vorotato wrote: post #33
d33 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

While he isn't blameless, the ACA helped a lot of people, the economy recovered greatly (admittedly all he had to do was not fuck it up), permitted states to legalize weed. For me I have to say the ACA is probably the biggest reason why I liked him well enough. I was able to stay on my parents insurance until I was 26, and then since I was self-employed I was able to easily get insurance through the marketplace. Now…

And his support for LGBT issues

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#106

Post by voxic11 »

hackuser wrote: post #49
rosser wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Subsequent presidents can "un-pardon" people pardoned by previous presidents, so I have a hard time imagining that a commutation is somehow immune to that kind of thing. EDIT: See follow-ups. I may be mistaken here, and need to run to a meeting, so I can't dig any more now. EDIT 2: http://swampland.time.com/2008/12/25/more-on-pardons/ Relevant quote, "Ulysses S. Grant’s first clemency decision, on his third day in of…

> Subsequent presidents can "un-pardon" people pardoned by previous presidents I've never heard that, never heard of it happening, and don't believe it's true. However, I've never researched it. Can you cite an example or a source?

IN RE DE PUY, the court found that a prisoner pardoned by the previous administration could have his pardon revoked by the following administration so long as the pardon had not yet been delivered and accepted by the prisoner.

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#107

Post by dtparr »

chollida1 wrote: post #11

It's been said that one person's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. > The files she copied also included about 250,000 diplomatic cables from American embassies around the world showing sensitive deals and conversations, dossiers detailing intelligence assessments of Guantánamo detainees held without trial, and a video of an American helicopter attack in Baghdad in two Reuters journalists were killed, among othe…

From prior discussions, both the DOD[0] and intelligence communities[1] have whistleblower programs. This inevitably leads to questions of whether the DOD/IC IGs can be trusted to investigate the DOD/IC without the forcing function of a public release, but the programs are in place.

[0] - http://www.dodig.mil/programs/whistleblower/index.html

[1] - https://www.dni.gov/index.php/about-this-site/contact-the-ig...

Re: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence

#110

Post by cowardlydragon »

notpc wrote: post #18

Manning indiscriminately leaked tons of diplomatic cables, as part of a personal vendetta against the US Army. It is without contention that the vast majority of the leaked cables revealed nothing that anyone considers wrongdoing. This wasn't the act of a whistle blower. It was the cowardly act of someone who put their own petty fantasies ahead of their solemn duty to protect the information they were entrusted with…

Oh, is it time to talk about cowardly people and the Iraq/Afghanistan war?
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