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China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

economist.com

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Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#201

Post by Larrikin »

free652 wrote: post #174
nialv7 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've been to Tokyo or Shanghai/Beijing, you would know the New York public transport system is not well developed at all.

NYC is one of the best system. It pretty much covers most of the city 24/7. I have yet to see a system that has similar coverage and frequency.

24/7 is in fact a negative as the state of the DC Metro and NYC system show especially in comparison to Tokyo's multiple system.

There's not enough time to do proper repairs and improvements.

What I don't understand is why more cities don't operate like Philly and operate 24 hour bus service in place of the trains at night. With a system like that the night workers can still get to work as early as others and the bar crowd can still go out with out the craziness of last train like in Tokyo.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#202

Post by refurb »

astrodust wrote: post #175
ghaff wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people do indeed want to get from Point A to point B quickly. That's why there are around 75,000 plane flights per day. There are very few city pairs in the US with the potential volume to justify high speed rail. There already is high speed-ish rail travel in the Northeast and it's very popular. But, for example, even if you could magically offer 6-8 hour train service between New York and Chicago, relatively f…

There are tons of city pairs but because the airline industry is heavily subsidized it's often cheaper to fly. The Boston to Washington D.C. corridor could easily sustain itself if the trains put in place were reliable, expedient, and low-fuss. There's no technological barriers here, as China has proven, only political ones. A lot of people see Amtrak as a problem, an anachronism, not a solution.

Airlines are subsidized? Not according to this article.[1]

[1]http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2015/04/14/u-s-airlines-...

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#203

Post by dilemma »

sandworm101 wrote: post #86
nacc wrote: post #78

As someone who grew in China, I just want to point out that besides the engineering, it is a political wonder as well. Before the bullet train network was built, China already has an extensive railway network. The first step is to run the bullet train on traditional railways, with a peak speed of 180km/h. People think it's great. No objections. But to raise the speed further, a new network has to be built, almost sid…

But what percentage of the population actually uses a bullet train in a given week/month/year? (Not trips/population, the percentage of people who take one or more journies in a given timeframe.) Is this just a service for the urban elite? Or do farmers also use them? The 747 and like jets made air travel affordable and now air travel is cheaper than by boat/rail over long distances (for people, taking into account f…

The HSR drove down airfares over night when it opened so you ought to praise it.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#204

Post by MarkMc »

These days when I travel on a train I can work efficiently, play computer games, Skype my family or watch a movie - the personal cost of a slow train compared to a fast train isn't as high as it used to be. So maybe technology has reduced the economic benefit of a bullet-train network.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#205

Post by wluu »

tuna-piano wrote: post #85
Rezo wrote: post #35

Saw this amazing photo of Chinese high-speed trains just the other day: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/chinese-he... Now that's some serious infrastructure investment!

The picture ( https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_1484w/2010-2019/Wire... ) was taken in Wuhan, China of more than 20 high speed trains. How many people have even heard of Wuhan before? It has a population of over 10M.

I've heard of Wuhan before, mostly because of the Chinese tennis player Li Na [1], who was born there. She did quite well at the Australian Open for several years (including winning it once) and became quite popular with the local crowd.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Na

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#206

Post by smpetrey »

ghaff wrote: post #152
xbeta wrote: post #135

(Being a Chinese grew up in Canada, and now working/living in the Bay) In my opinion, most people in the valley or in North America still refuse to give up their lifestyle. They look for something like self-driving cars, all electric-powered "personal" vehicle to invest. And those still drive on the same road/interstates/highway infrastructure and don't give you the benefits compare with high-speed rails. They don't…

Many people do indeed want to get from Point A to point B quickly. That's why there are around 75,000 plane flights per day. There are very few city pairs in the US with the potential volume to justify high speed rail. There already is high speed-ish rail travel in the Northeast and it's very popular. But, for example, even if you could magically offer 6-8 hour train service between New York and Chicago, relatively f…

> There already is high speed-ish rail travel in the Northeast and it's very popular. But, for example, even if you could magically offer 6-8 hour train service between New York and Chicago, relatively few people would take it given that flying would be significantly faster.

Texan living in NYC here. I disagree. I would happily pay to take a 6 hour train to Chicago over a flight anyday. LGA/JFK are nightmares to book last minute flights and high-speed rail is a favorable experience to flying sometimes.

In contrast, there's no "useful" rail network in Texas — at all. If there was a rail network, like the single-high speed line proposed between Dallas and Houston, it would totally dominate and disrupt. People fly to/from cities in Texas all the time.

There are many many cities that would benefit from a rail network because the cost would be considerably lower than flying. If you build it, they will come.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#207

Post by MarkMc »

xbeta wrote: post #135

(Being a Chinese grew up in Canada, and now working/living in the Bay) In my opinion, most people in the valley or in North America still refuse to give up their lifestyle. They look for something like self-driving cars, all electric-powered "personal" vehicle to invest. And those still drive on the same road/interstates/highway infrastructure and don't give you the benefits compare with high-speed rails. They don't…

> The ultimate goal is to have 45,000km of high-speed track. Zhao Jian of Beijing Jiaotong University, who has long criticised the high-speed push, reckons that only 5,000km of this will be in areas with enough people to justify the cost.

Do you agree with this 5,000km figure? If not, what figure would you choose?

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#208

Post by pyb »

pmyteh wrote: post #193
pyb wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are talking about recent carriages here (10-20 years old)

They're quite a bit older than this, assuming you're thinking of the British examples. The last Mark 3 coach was made in 1988, and the Mark 4s have sliding plug power doors. It was still an odd design decision, though. There had been electric doors on BR multiple units since the 70s.

Yes it looks like I was thinking of those trains, they don't look this old. They run on the Reading-Paddington line. Anyway, there's no excuse whatsoever for this design, however old they are!

After 3 years, I am still not quite confident opening those doors. I try to let another passenger do it for me.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#209

Post by edblarney »

xbeta wrote: post #135

(Being a Chinese grew up in Canada, and now working/living in the Bay) In my opinion, most people in the valley or in North America still refuse to give up their lifestyle. They look for something like self-driving cars, all electric-powered "personal" vehicle to invest. And those still drive on the same road/interstates/highway infrastructure and don't give you the benefits compare with high-speed rails. They don't…

"In my opinion, most people in the valley or in North America still refuse to give up their lifestyle."

You should try living in Europe.

There is no lifestyle to give up by using trains!

... so long as they are made correctly.

Imagine if there were fairly high speed trains that connected SF, SJ, outside the bay - and LA?

And the stations were easy to access through subways/quick trains?

So many fewer people would drive.

Having to deal with the BS of a car, be stuck in traffic, drive everywhere - is not a lifestyle advantage. :)

Once you have easy access to good subways/trams/high-speed trains - you likely don't want to drive unless you have to.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#210

Post by bigger_cheese »

I'd love it if we could do something like this on the east coast of Australia. I doubt it will ever happen. I fly between Sydney and Melbourne fairly regularly and it can be a real pain. Sydney -> Melbourne route is one of the busiest air corridors in the world so demand would probably be there.
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