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Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life

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Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people throughout the history of agricultural societies have been landless peasants working as serfs for the local lord. The utopian dream of the self-sufficient yeoman farmer has mostly been a rare exceptional case.

I'm neither an anthropologist nor a historian so my weak grasp on the details is probably going to get me in trouble if I get much deeper into this argument. I'll just say that personally, I feel that such sentiment is primarily a construction by the same people who are trying to sell us the need for every adult couple to get a new mortgage, to have six figures on loan for education, to pay $75k+ for new cars every 6…

How do you get from «the vast majority of humans ever living in agricultural societies throughout history were serfs» to “a construction by the same people who are trying to sell us [...]”

I promise I’m not trying to sell you anything. I hardly ever drive a car and only own a used one because my wife likes road trips (I’d be happy to get rid of it), have mostly avoided student loans, live relatively frugally (with the notable exception of buying too many used books), and think it sounds just fine if you do the same. If you want to argue for Marxist critiques of late capitalism or for Buddhist asceticism or whatever, I’m happy to concede the point.

In general, I’d say the people who are trying to sell you something don’t give a damn about economic or social history, and aren’t going to bother “constructing” some vast conspiracy to trick you about the past.

My direct experience is mostly with researching my own ancestors, who were landless peasant farmers living in Ireland, and with decades of close experience with indigenous rural peasants in Mexico (such as my godparents), whose families were mostly quasi-slave migrant agricultural laborers for the past few hundred years, under the oppressive control of the Spanish.

Admittedly, both of those cases were people living at the fringes of empire under an imperialist/capitalist global order. But my research of other times and places suggests that conditions were much the same in most times and most places (e.g. throughout pre-industrial Europe, China, India, and the Middle East). If you want a nice introduction, try Graeber’s book Debt: The First 5000 Years.

Whether rural peasants would view their situations with “suspicion or contempt” is something you can directly ask of the remaining rural peasants in the world. I don’t know about suspicion per se, but for the most part they would prefer to have running water, electricity, televisions, cellphones, modern medical care, non-leaking roofs, a stove that didn’t fill their rooms with outrageous quantities of wood smoke, education for their children, a stable source of income, etc., even at the expense of leaving their families to work in horrendous factories and live in urban slums.

Obviously it’s harder to ask people from a few centuries ago, but I’ll note that my own ancestors took the first available opportunity to flee their ancestral homelands and travel across an ocean away from all of their support networks at great risk and expense, for the mere promise of a better deal.

Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are slamming an entire generation by claiming that the problem is spending irresponsibly on frivolous things. I don't blame you - it must feel great to feel that the problems of the world are rooted in others being less virtuous than you. The trouble is, my generation faces lower real wages and higher housing costs, and those effects are so large that Starbucks habits are basically noise in comparison. That narra…

> The trouble is, my generation faces lower real wages and higher housing costs, and those effects are so large that Starbucks habits are basically noise in comparison. No, that Starbucks habit isn't noise. I consumed Starbucks coffee daily after Christmas a few years back (got a lot of gift cards for them for some reason). It was $2/day for a cup of coffee. $10/week. Continued through the year, $500 (holidays and su…

On the question of "why is Alice poor and Bob well-off" a difference of $10k on the income side is 5x more interesting than a difference of $2k on the expense side, no?

But more generally. "Do you really need this?" is the right question to ask about the expense, effort, and unpleasantness you tolerate from the overhead in life, such as education, work, housing, transportation, sustenance, etc. And yes, you probably need at least the minimum viable product in each category, and the savings to continue purchasing it during unemployment and retirement.

For the rest, I'm much more interested in, "is this worth it?" Good food, books, TV, movies, concerts, theater, and yes, Sunday afternoons at the coffee shop are what all that overhead is for, particularly when shared with people whose company I enjoy.

If I need to find an additional $2k, I will pull it from overheard (be slightly less picky about my next apartment, or put up with a less pleasant commute). Not cut all the enjoyment from my life.

I use (and love) You Need a Budget. My entertainment category is about 5% of my take-home, with savings of about 25%, and I'm satisfied with this. (Of course, I am extremely fortunate to be early in life with a great education, high income, and good health).

Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millennial here. I just got the property assessment notice on my modest 1 bedroom condo. The "value" of it has gone up by $200,000 (around 30%) in the last two years according to the assessment office. So I can expect a nice fat tax bill later this year. The boomer generation, in full control of politics my entire adult life and for the foreseeable future, has made real estate in my city into a ponzi scheme, and I do…

I'm sorry, did you just complain about making 30% ROI on $200k over two years? Oh no, your tax burden.

It's only effectively realizable if I move to a different city, so yes, I did complain about that. I want real estate prices to stabilize.
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