Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm riiight on the cusp; born in '82, graduated in 2000. My wife was born in '81, graduated in '99. We're definitely more millenial than GenX - my older siblings (born in '70, '72, '75) are total GenX'ers. The GenX'ers had computers as tweens/teens, so they definitely grew up as all this tech stuff was developing, but I've literally never lived in a house without a computer. Quite literally: my parents bought a ZX-81…
Facebook launched in early 2004. So people graduating high school in 2000 didn't have it for much of their college career.
Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life
61–70 of 134 posts
Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life
#62Note that even in countries where the absolute amount of money is better, the stuff on this article still applies. I am from Brazil, and many boomers told me when I was young how awesome I was to be young, because I was living in a golden age where I didn't had to walk uphill both ways to school, could have computer, and whatnot. But it is me that envy them now, I am 29, have zero income, lots of debt, and own no ass…
That is a damn good description of why accelerationists are gaining popularity. I think a lot of the alt-right obsession comes from this as well.
Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life
#63There is no mention of purchasing power. My hunch is it's even worse than the 20% less income.
It cost $1,000,000,000 to own a computer for baby boomers. I have (depending on how you count) between 3 (PCs - 2 mac and a Windows), and 11 (3 PCs, 2 phones, 2 console, an appleTV, 2 iPads and a Kindle).
That was impossible for my parents, heck for 18 year old me.
People think life is harder now because the equations of life are:
* Happiness = Reality - Expectation. * Success = MAXIMUM_POSSIBLE_WE_ARE_EXPOSED_TO - what I achieve.
Most people expect a lot these days, and get slightly less and as a result are miserable.
On top of that, MAXIMUM_POSSIBLE_WE_ARE_EXPOSED_TO has increased, as we have more means of communication.
In mathematical terms, the gap between the each of these values of a good life: 1. The absolute highest possible value 2. The MEAN existence. 3. The MEDIAN existence
is increasing. In 1970, there were lots of limits. Today, you can be a YouTube star at home. As some people have it really good, this bumps the maximum and mean values, whereas the median hasn't moved as much since 1970l even though it has increased.
As examples, there are people like Casey Neistat and various Vloggers that live seemingly great lives. There are pro skaters, pro-surfers, musicians, actors, and then the tech billionaires. There are digital nomads, off-the-griders and other niche communties, and I'm sitting here reading Hacker news.
But that is BECAUSE we have just so many more options today. We also live in a world where the possibilities are vast - from travel (I have been to every continent except Antarctica), to work (so many more jobs in niche areas), to lifestyle, range of hobbies, foods available (baby boomers thought Pizza and pasta where exotic), even better COFFEE.
As there is so much possible, and the hours in week has remained static, we all fall short of the MAXIMUM_POSSIBLE_WE_ARE_EXPOSED_TO by a very long margin. No one is eating enough new or interesting foods, has enough cool hobbies they get paid for, plays enough games, has enough sex or spare time or earns Zuckerberg money - and by no one I mean no one person can ever achieve all of those things at once, so when we compare someone else's 100% dedication to our 0.1%, we feel inadequate.
But man, what a world! I am in Australia, writing a response to a person who commented on a system hosted in the USA that was impossible in 1970, using a pocket computer I use to communicate with literally the WORLD, about an article published in USA Today today (well, in some ways technically yesterday as I am a day in front of the west coast of the USA) that would never have reached my country in 1970. What is that worth? Certainly not nothing, even if many people deluded believe they would rather the 3 bedroom house in 1970 without a computer, air conditioning or the internet, not to mention the raft of socially limiting conditions.
Rant over!
Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life
#64I cannot say I'm very impressed with the article. I could pick out a number of millenials who are doing better than their parents at the same age. But I wouldn't use that to argue that everything is okay. One thing that has stuck out at me has been the ways in which people have money drained from them. I think there is a huge student loan problem where young people were "sold" a crappy education. But setting that asi…
You are slamming an entire generation by claiming that the problem is spending irresponsibly on frivolous things. I don't blame you - it must feel great to feel that the problems of the world are rooted in others being less virtuous than you. The trouble is, my generation faces lower real wages and higher housing costs, and those effects are so large that Starbucks habits are basically noise in comparison. That narra…
Since I'm an engineer and have been since the 80's and a hiring manager for much of the last 15 years I can tell you that the starting wage for an electrical engineer or a computer programmer with a four year degree is around $85,000 (that was IBM's "standard offer" regardless of geography for a New College Grad with a 4 year degree). My starting wage in 1984 was $25,500 (which was Intel's standard offer for New College Grads with a 4 year degree). According to (https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl) my salary in 1984 would be $60,000 today. That suggests to me that for my job and education there has been a 42% increase in salary.
I certainly agree that where I live (the Bay Area) the price of housing has outpaced that increase in salary, especially in home ownership. That appears to be stabilizing a bit as additional housing comes on line but it remains to be seen if that truly reflects what it costs. I also got married to an engineer and so we were both bringing home "engineering" salaries and that gave us the ability to get into a house in 1988 with a 12% adjustable mortgage rate.
So what does this anecdote tell us? Not a whole lot. Engineers make more today out of college than they did in the 80's. Not really a huge surprise.
I think Internet access is essential today, at its cheapest its probably $30/month, more if you combine it with a phone. That is a cost I didn't have to pay. But its an example of things that people today do have to pay.
Informational value? Not high.
The truth is that not all people born between 1985 and 1995 make 20% less than their parents in 2016 than people who were born from 1955 to 1965 made in 1986. Some make more, some make less, some make about the same. How many? That would be an interesting thing to know but this article doesn't tell us how to understand that. It picks out some anecdotes, sprinkles in some common boogeymen (student loan debt) and implies we're all headed for the crapper.
So it didn't impress me very much.
PS. Don't dismiss the coffee habit out of hand. $500 a year compounded at 4% a year over 40 years (21 -> 61) is a bit more than $50,000 you don't get to spend in retirement.
Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've always thought it was people born before the millenium, who turned 18 after it, so 1982-2000. Easy to remember that way, as well ;-)
I'm riiight on the cusp; born in '82, graduated in 2000. My wife was born in '81, graduated in '99. We're definitely more millenial than GenX - my older siblings (born in '70, '72, '75) are total GenX'ers. The GenX'ers had computers as tweens/teens, so they definitely grew up as all this tech stuff was developing, but I've literally never lived in a house without a computer. Quite literally: my parents bought a ZX-81…
Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are slamming an entire generation by claiming that the problem is spending irresponsibly on frivolous things. I don't blame you - it must feel great to feel that the problems of the world are rooted in others being less virtuous than you. The trouble is, my generation faces lower real wages and higher housing costs, and those effects are so large that Starbucks habits are basically noise in comparison. That narra…
>> those effects are so large that Starbucks habits are basically noise in comparison Right, because spending $1500-2000/year on Starbucks and another $2000-$4000+/year on McDonald's and other takeout for 2-3 meals a day is "noise". Consumerism is a very real thing today. There are lower middle class people who blow $30-50 a day on Starbucks, energy drinks, going out for lunch, and ordering pizza for dinner. Throw in…
I really get tired of hearing people complain about low wages and being broke, but aren't willing on doing anything about it. Ranting on Facebook from their $700 - $800 Iphone while drinking a $5 coffee.
I've worked really hard for everything I have. Late nights on my own, studying to better myself. Missing opportunities to hang out with friends, concerts, etc. But, at the end of the day, I chose to focus on my skills, knowledge, and career. So, when I see these same people complaining, I feel like they are degrading the time I spent and luxuries I gave up to get to where I am.
Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life
#67A boomer I know bought a house right out of college. He graduated with a civil engineering degree. The house cost twice what his salary was as a brand new CE. The house is recognizable today as a standard split foyer. College for me (in the 80s) was still fairly inexpensive compared to now, but when I graduated with an EE degree, houses started at 4x or more than what I made. I see millenials taking higher risks with…
In silicon valley housed started at around 10x what I made starting out of college.
I'll mention that more millennials should consider leaving to live in non 1st class cities. Just look at atlanta vs sf (https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...). I can tell you that SF wages are not 1.8x ATL's.
Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life
#68Now throw in the fact that we: 1) have much higher housing costs, due to housing policies created by boomers 2) have much higher out of pocket education costs, due to education policies created by boomers 3) have much higher out of pocket health care costs, due to health care policies created by boomers 4) have much higher payroll taxes due to social security raiding and general mismanagement by boomers 5) have much…
The maximum income they apply to has increased since then though:
https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/policybriefs/pb2011-02.html
(using the inflation adjusted numbers, 20-25%)
I'm not real sure what you mean by social security raiding. Of course the government has borrowed and spent much of the Social Security trust fund, but this has little bearing on the future of Social Security, as the borrowing has been fully accounted for. Some future government could decide not to pay the money back, but they would be responsible for that, not the government that borrowed the money.
Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life
#69Now throw in the fact that we: 1) have much higher housing costs, due to housing policies created by boomers 2) have much higher out of pocket education costs, due to education policies created by boomers 3) have much higher out of pocket health care costs, due to health care policies created by boomers 4) have much higher payroll taxes due to social security raiding and general mismanagement by boomers 5) have much…
Re: Millennials earn 20% less than Boomers did at same stage of life
#70I cannot say I'm very impressed with the article. I could pick out a number of millenials who are doing better than their parents at the same age. But I wouldn't use that to argue that everything is okay. One thing that has stuck out at me has been the ways in which people have money drained from them. I think there is a huge student loan problem where young people were "sold" a crappy education. But setting that asi…
You are slamming an entire generation by claiming that the problem is spending irresponsibly on frivolous things. I don't blame you - it must feel great to feel that the problems of the world are rooted in others being less virtuous than you. The trouble is, my generation faces lower real wages and higher housing costs, and those effects are so large that Starbucks habits are basically noise in comparison. That narra…
No, that Starbucks habit isn't noise. I consumed Starbucks coffee daily after Christmas a few years back (got a lot of gift cards for them for some reason). It was $2/day for a cup of coffee. $10/week. Continued through the year, $500 (holidays and such mean I won't commute, vacations I may still indulge). That's 2 car payments if you buy a modest car. That's a significant chunk of your rent, possibly all of it, if you're not in NYC or SF or somewhere equally absurdly expensive.
It's like a code smell. If you're consuming pricy drinks on a frequent basis, what else are you doing that you could do for a fraction of the price yourself? Look at every other $1/day habit you have. Sodas? Modest 1/day habit (along with being unhealthy) if you don't buy them at the grocery store is around $2/day (bottle or fountain). That's another $500/year. Netflix + Hulu + Spotify + HBO Now + Amazon Prime + Cable? Do you really need all of them? I didn't, kept Netflix + Amazon Prime and saved $1200/year, more than a rent payment.
There, between coffee, soda, and media, I've saved > $2000. If your income is low, as this article discusses, this is a significant percentage of your income. 4% if your income is only $50k. Higher if you consider your net-income on that and not your gross-income. You still want coffee? I'm in an espresso club at work, 8 people, espresso twice a day, costs me $20/year for my contribution. Drop the sodas, they aren't healthy for you anyways, drink one once a week or so as a treat.
Examine your spending, really look at it. You'll find that you likely have a lot of places where you "leak" money, because it's just a coffee, or just a soda, or just a cocktail. Then it doesn't become an occasional spending thing, like once a week or month. But more frequent, daily or several times a week. Your money is gone and you don't know where it went.