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Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

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Re: Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

#71

Post by jrs235 »

tunap wrote: post #67
Houshalter wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the point entirely, and being exactly the kind of person I am complaining about. Buying plasma doesn't hurt anyone. It doesn't make the poor worse off. It's certainly not "exploitation". And it's doing more to help the poor than the vast majority of people that don't do anything. There is a problem in the world, that people are poor, desperate, or in need. But the plasma industry didn't cause poverty,…

But they did ratchet back the prices! Back in college I went with friends to donate plasma(I had a job, didn't 'need' the money). It was interesting and paid $75 for but the poor and desperate was gone. Nowadays I'll give blood for free(& snacks!), will not waste half a day to enrich the lab's bottom line.

Where I am you can donate twice a week and usually takes an hour, during busier times it might take 1.5 hours depending on a short wait and how quickly you cycle (the more hydrated you are the faster it can go and your weight determines how much you will have to donate). First donation of the week they pay $20, second time is $50. That's $70 a week, $280 a month. I donate. I don't need to but why not get paid to read?

Re: Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

#73

Post by woodruffw »

Houshalter wrote: post #68
woodruffw wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To paraphrase Kant: You shouldn't use the less fortunate (or anybody, really) as a mere mean to an end. Paying the homeless a pittance to behave as moving antennas is about as close as you can get to treating someone as a mere mean. The same goes for paying the disadvantaged $40 for their plasma - we can all intuitively recognize that a minimal "solution" that treats the individual as a mean and not an individual (au…

Who cares? The only relevant question is "Do their actions make the world a better place?" Or perhaps, "Are they improving these people's lives, or making them worse?" And yes, they are improving their lives, if only slightly. They are making the world a better place. The people who claim to care about these poor people, have done nothing to help them. Their revealed preferences show they don't actually care at all.…

Are they improving their lives? They don't think so, and I don't think so either. $40 twice a week is not a substitute for self respect or a job that you can admit to your children.

> "Do their actions make the world a better place?"

Do they? Is a "better" world a one in which people are forced to sell their plasma to survive? In your dimly utilitarian view, you've neglected to consider whether such a state of affairs is truly a good one (much less a maximally good one, as most utilitarians would actually demand).

> The people who claim to care about these poor people, have done nothing to help them. Their revealed preferences show they don't actually care at all.

Sure, if you think voting and advocacy count for nothing. Charity and philanthropy are good, but they're general obligations not directed at any individual or group of individuals. Whether or not people choose to give to your pet injustice (there are many of them, after all) is not indication that they passively abide by it.

Re: Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

#74

Post by tunap »

jrs235 wrote: post #71
tunap wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they did ratchet back the prices! Back in college I went with friends to donate plasma(I had a job, didn't 'need' the money). It was interesting and paid $75 for but the poor and desperate was gone. Nowadays I'll give blood for free(& snacks!), will not waste half a day to enrich the lab's bottom line.

Where I am you can donate twice a week and usually takes an hour, during busier times it might take 1.5 hours depending on a short wait and how quickly you cycle (the more hydrated you are the faster it can go and your weight determines how much you will have to donate). First donation of the week they pay $20, second time is $50. That's $70 a week, $280 a month. I donate. I don't need to but why not get paid to read…

That seems like a lot of plasma your body has to replenish. Sure the platelets are put back, but sounds extreme... IANAMD.

I am referring to my experience in the '90s and it may have been allowed more than 2xs a month, but that is all I was comfortable with. When the payout was reduced >50% I desisted.

Re: Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

#75

Post by dbg31415 »

cylinder wrote: post #13
dbg31415 wrote: post #9

I donate every 2 months. I also encourage everyone who can to donate as frequently as they can. It's an easy way for anyone to play it forward. * American Red Cross || http://www.redcrossblood.org/give/drive/driveSearch.jsp I had a family member in a near-fatal car accident a little over 12 years ago. It took a lot of blood to keep her alive, and I'm thankful for everyone who donated and made saving her life possible…

This is not about donating blood to the Red Cross, this is about the plasma donation industry, which is only for-profit in the US and supplies much of the world. Only a few companies operate in this space, I've studied it closely. Baxalta runs a big chain, BioLife, as does CSL. If we accept that selling organs is prohibited and unethical then we should also accept the same for selling plasma.

> If we accept that selling organs is prohibited and unethical then we should also accept the same for selling plasma.

Do we agree that selling organs is a bad idea though?

* The Sale of Human Organs (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy) || https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/organs-sale/

* Why Legalizing Organ Sales Would Help to Save Lives, End Violence - The Atlantic || https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/11/why-legal...

* Cash for Kidneys: The Case for a Market for Organs - WSJ || http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527023041494045793225...

* Most people are okay with 'selling' organs — and it might be wise - Business Insider || http://www.businessinsider.com/can-you-sell-organs-2016-9

And... it's not like the rich aren't already buying organs... why not legalize, make transparent, and regulate the process for all?

* Liver Transplant for Steven Jobs of Apple Raises Questions - The New York Times || http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/23/business/23liver.html

* Steve Jobs' liver transplant: Did he game the system? || http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_natur...

Re: Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

#76

Post by jrs235 »

tunap wrote: post #74
jrs235 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I am you can donate twice a week and usually takes an hour, during busier times it might take 1.5 hours depending on a short wait and how quickly you cycle (the more hydrated you are the faster it can go and your weight determines how much you will have to donate). First donation of the week they pay $20, second time is $50. That's $70 a week, $280 a month. I donate. I don't need to but why not get paid to read…

That seems like a lot of plasma your body has to replenish. Sure the platelets are put back, but sounds extreme... IANAMD. I am referring to my experience in the '90s and it may have been allowed more than 2xs a month, but that is all I was comfortable with. When the payout was reduced >50% I desisted.

825 ml per time. I weigh approx 165 lbs. They give you a pint of saline.

Re: Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

#77

Post by driverdan »

peacetreefrog wrote: post #56
peacetreefrog wrote: post #49

Pretty basic economics. Quantity supplied generally == quantity demanded, as long as there's a functioning price system. It's why you can go to a gas station and (while the price certainly changes) count on them never being out of gas, despite whatever else is going on in terms of weather, OPEC or whatever. Paying people for plasma donation means there's plasma available for patients who need it. And it's not like th…

It is interesting how the (monetary) price for blood is basically $0, while for plasma it's > $0. Know nothing about blood or plasma, but I'd imagine this is because donating plasma takes longer and is more painful. Wouldn't be surprised if it was trickier to store/transport/use or if you generally got less plasma fluid out of a person vs blood, or people could donate less often or something. Also note while the mone…

> It is interesting how the (monetary) price for blood is basically $0, while for plasma it's > $0.

It's not. In the US compensation for donating blood is illegal but not plasma. Most charities that take blood donations sell it.

Re: Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

#78

Post by adentranter »

Aussie here. This is an interesting contrast to what the state of blood donation and healthcare here is. I have never seen a for profit blood bank here. It's mainly one non for profit that takes blood donations.

I have often tried to donate blood but been turned away due to my height vs weight ratio ( im skinny and tall ). I think the desire to donate blood for nothing may come from the fact that we receive pretty much free healthcare ( you can pay for health insurance and get access to better doctors and shorter waiting lists ).

I've read many things on HN about healthcare in the pass and it always amazes me how much I take my countries health system for granted.

I have put on 10 kgs (22 lbs) since I last tried so maybe I will try again sometime.

Re: Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

#79

Post by kgwgk »

driverdan wrote: post #77
peacetreefrog wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting how the (monetary) price for blood is basically $0, while for plasma it's > $0. Know nothing about blood or plasma, but I'd imagine this is because donating plasma takes longer and is more painful. Wouldn't be surprised if it was trickier to store/transport/use or if you generally got less plasma fluid out of a person vs blood, or people could donate less often or something. Also note while the mone…

> It is interesting how the (monetary) price for blood is basically $0, while for plasma it's > $0. It's not. In the US compensation for donating blood is illegal but not plasma. Most charities that take blood donations sell it.

> In the US compensation for donating blood is illegal

Not really: https://www.statnews.com/2016/01/22/paid-plasma-not-blood/

Re: Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

#80

Post by [deleted] »

driverdan wrote: post #77
peacetreefrog wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting how the (monetary) price for blood is basically $0, while for plasma it's > $0. Know nothing about blood or plasma, but I'd imagine this is because donating plasma takes longer and is more painful. Wouldn't be surprised if it was trickier to store/transport/use or if you generally got less plasma fluid out of a person vs blood, or people could donate less often or something. Also note while the mone…

> It is interesting how the (monetary) price for blood is basically $0, while for plasma it's > $0. It's not. In the US compensation for donating blood is illegal but not plasma. Most charities that take blood donations sell it.

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