Earlier quoted context omitted.
With that attitude we would never see any progress with software though.
How much "progress" is really necessary?
asked the first human in a cave..
Opera Neon concept browser
201–210 of 218 posts
Re: Opera Neon concept browser
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you not see how this is a huge hedge for Google? You control the platform and APIs, you rule the world. Why do you think I don't see that? On top of that, if you have to compete in the browser space by forking off of Google's rendering engine and web platform, you're always going to be behind. Why? That's certainly not what happened with Google's browser.
Why? That's certainly not what happened with Google's browser. Because they can outspend you in engineering resources to push forward, and working with someone elses stack is a burden, not a blessing, if the other side moves more quickly (and forces you to rebase).
I don't remember arguing that developing a modern browser is cheap - I'm responding to the strange notion that the availability of a full open source browser from Google somehow makes things harder for competitors. It doesn't. And, again, as to forking - Apple created a competitive browser by forking an opensource project, Google created another one forking Apple's. This is demonstrably a viable and arguably more effective way of developing a browser.
Re: Opera Neon concept browser
#203This made me realize how little innovation there is in the browser space today. Opera used to innovate extensively before the sale, and it looks like at least they're trying to keep doing it. I'm also hopeful for Vivaldi. Chrome and Firefox are completely stagnant, unfortunately.
Ahh, the paradox of being the market leader. Remember when Chrome tried to innovate with how we use bookmarks? [1] People cry out for innovation, but then freak out when said innovation happens. This is why disrupters are so successful - they can do something crazy and people will try it out and think - this is amazing. Because the mindset/psychology is that this is something new. But the market leader implements exa…
Just because they're "trying to innovate" doesn't mean the ideas will be any good, though. Yes, inertia and resistance to the new are a thing, that doesn't mean bad ideas aren't :)
Opera has a well established history of innovating web browsing. So many features we consider normal and must-have in modern browsers were pioneered by Opera. The innovation kind of stopped and a lot of features disappeared when they fired the Presto team and switched to webkit, unfortunately.
Google on the other hand, has a well established history of developing a pretty great idea and then at some point begin making it shittier with each update.
This may be a bias of an old Opera fanboy / IMHO; If you consider innovative features, between Opera (frozen just before they ditched Presto), versus where Chrome has innovated and been developed to today--Developer tooling maybe, but from a user point of view? Nowhere even close. Especially if you consider what was taken away (but then, the entire Presto engine and many of its unique features were taken away too).
Opera has had more of a "Yes, and" approach to innovation, but still they (barely) managed to avoid the "kitchen sink" problem. Old features almost never went away. I used to think the built-in torrent client was unnecessary bloat, but in hindsight was that really a bad idea? Main problem was torrent protocol itself was a bit heavy for computers at the time, making it feel bloaty. Unlike the built in IRC client, which was just another lightweight browser tab unlike Chrome (or Firefox) could ever manage. Still, Opera was also famous for it's tiny executable size.
Re: Opera Neon concept browser
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
What if Chrome could give you a back massage though? Firefox cook you dinner?
Still don't want it, a human being is probably better at those things
But human beings are proprietary, with gaping security holes that are constantly being exploited by both government-actors and criminal organisations worldwide...
Re: Opera Neon concept browser
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
> For example adding a Firefox addon to display tabs vertically in a tree structure instead of a horizontal list has changed the way I use the internet Sounds interesting, which extension would that be?
Could be Tree Style Tabs ( https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta... ) or Tab Tree ( https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tab-tree/ ).
Yes, I'm using Tree Style Tabs.
Re: Opera Neon concept browser
#206Re: Opera Neon concept browser
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
Done, thanks.
Do you mind linking to the bug report?
Sure, it's here: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=860478
Re: Opera Neon concept browser
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
Really? I'm on Vivaldi right now and everything is instant. I'm using it over Firefox just because how much faster it is. It's as fast as Chrome for me.
Vivaldi does not feel as fast as the old opera. On some pages browsing would slow down to a halt while CPU usage would spike to 100%.
Nothing feels as fast as the old Opera :(
Re: Opera Neon concept browser
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I've lost more data to that than any web browser bug over the years. Is the back that backspace goes back, or that the browser doesn't store text you've typed in a textarea?
The browser does store the text in the text area, but the text area disappears when you reload the page because you need to click a button that adds that element to the page.
Well that's the page's fault, we used to call that "breaking the back button / history". And apparently not enough people think that was big enough of a deal to stop doing it. Unfortunately.
And even Opera tried to keep that too, at least in many situations, to keep the history an actual history and you'd switch through snapshots of the DOM+state--at least that's what it felt like, I'm not sure that's what it really did, but I guess it helps with speed, too. A webpage generally isn't supposed to move or change at all unless you're interacting with it, so really after it's rendered, flipping through history or tabs should be instant, even on an old machine because it's just bitmaps, really. I remember a while ago there was an article here that sort of explained why this couldn't be done or didn't work for some reason, but it was a tradeoff to get some feature that, given the option no one in their right mind would trade for instant history and tab navigation.
Re: Opera Neon concept browser
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
The browser does store the text in the text area, but the text area disappears when you reload the page because you need to click a button that adds that element to the page.
Well that's the page's fault, we used to call that "breaking the back button / history". And apparently not enough people think that was big enough of a deal to stop doing it. Unfortunately. And even Opera tried to keep that too, at least in many situations, to keep the history an actual history and you'd switch through snapshots of the DOM+state--at least that's what it felt like, I'm not sure that's what it really…
Even if it's the page's fault, you still lose your text. At that point, you don't really care who to get angry at, do you? Which is why I always disable backspace for back navigation.