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blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: VR

#251

Post by gavanwoolery »

I am both a huge proponent and skeptic of VR. I am no veteran but to my credit I was dabbling with VR many years before Oculus ran its Kickstarter.

I am skeptical in the short term because the hardware is still struggling to keep up with the demands (at a reasonable price point). Maintaining 90-120 FPS with any sort of detail is much more difficult than 30 FPS.

I am a proponent in the long term because there is definitely some sort of value. The feeling of "presence" just can't be matched by anything else (short of directly manipulating our sensory input).

I think people are still struggling to figure out where exactly the value is now though. In the long term I can see it being a huge social tool (to the point where people might regularly meet their significant other in a virtual environment, if the rendering is accurate enough). There is also likely benefit in creative tools (I have found modeling in VR to be much easier and more natural).

Interestingly, from the people I have shown VR to, it is the less technical people (non-programmers, etc) that walk away with their minds blown. Perhaps we are still not marketing VR strongly enough, because most people I know still have not tried a real device.

IMO VR will be different from mobile though. The evolution of apps for phones was explosive, but we are trying to game evolution by throwing huge amounts of funding at VR, perhaps prematurely. This is not to say any advancements at this point aren't worth the time, I am just not so sure there will be a large payoff in the short term. (And of course, this is just my opinion, feel free to disagree).

Re: VR

#252

Post by rictic »

aphextron wrote: post #156

As someone who owns both headsets from day one and has been developing software for Vive, I'd honestly say the current generation of tech just isn't worth it for most people. In five years when we have wireless headsets with eye tracking and full FOV displays with no discernible pixelation and the library of games are finally here it will be worth it. As it is most people would probably be let down after the initial…

I think that the Vive is a little like the release iPhone. It has all of the pieces, but it's also clunky and extravagant.

You had to have a pretty good imagination to look at any 2004 phone and envision the iPhone, but once you had the 1st gen iPhone it's pretty easy to imagine a modern smartphone. It's pretty much just the same thing only more so.

Re: VR

#253

Post by thenomad »

0xdada wrote: post #250
thenomad wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now just imagine how that'll play out when we have really good competitive VR games that are also cardio workouts - so you're aiming to out-fitness the millions of other players. The first DOTA or Counterstrike equivalent for VR that also rewards fitness with increased game ability will unleash a legion of very, very fit competitive gamers on the world. Bearing in mind - 7 hr a week is more or less the minimum to be…

It's more like 7 hours a day to be anywhere near competitive at DotA.

By "competitive" in that context I meant "won't get stomped at 1.5k MMR". Which is still, frankly, a pretty high bar compared to most games.

But yes. If you want to be actually competitive at a tournament level, you're dead on.

Re: VR

#254

Post by thenomad »

mysterydip wrote: post #247
thenomad wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That works for some people but not all - but for those it does work for, it works very well. I've added exactly that - scaled movement - as an option into my VR game, Left-Hand Path, and so far most of my users are very positive about it. I love it personally - it feels very much like it doubles my available play area. One of my playtesters hated it and found it made him nauseous, though, so like many VR locomotion o…

I'd love to read/hear more about your experiences, as a fellow gamedev and looking at VR but not ready to take that plunge yet (couple projects first).

I Tweet a fair bit currently, and I've written about my VR work a fair bit over at strangecompany.org over the years.

I'm actually about to start doing more writing or videos on the topic of VR development and my experiences in it, so keep an eye on my Twitter, blog or YouTube if you like - they'll be up there starting in the next few weeks.

Re: VR

#255

Post by JacobKyle »

awwstn wrote: post #59

The challenges for VR today can be summed up in a few points: - The price point (a high-end VR experience costs around $2800 ($800 HTC Vive + a $2000 PC) - Resolution (even the best VR is too low-res today) - Inside-out tracking (explained below) - Content – there are great games and other immersive content today, but it's just scratching the surface Apart from content, all of these challenges will be handily solved…

Re: inside out tracking - have you seen Bridge? It's a mobile, spatially aware headset for IOS. It uses an onboard Structure Sensor to power positionally tracked VR + high end MR. All on an iphone (no remote processing), and We've been working on it in secret for a couple of years, and just launched it in December.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iys8yo0sjYg

Re: VR

#256

Post by lsaferite »

ggregoire wrote: post #158

Like most people, I'm completely sick when I'm in VR. I don't see how the VR could become mainstream if they don't fix this problem.

> Like most people

Most people?

I've run 20+ people of all ages (4-63) through my Vive setup and the only person that got nauseous was a guy trying out Project Cars (a seated experience), and that was only after an extended period in the game.

Re: VR

#258

Post by nsxwolf »

Vraxx wrote: post #114
evo_9 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point - on the Vive you can easily remove the face padding and rinse it off. They also sell replacements, I have a few so I rotate them in/out depending on which is driest etc.

I recall reading in most places that you are not supposed to get the HTC default foam pads wet and that it causes them to degrade quicker. Anecdotally, my wide face cushion has way less definition and is squishier than my narrow face cushion. This is definitely in part because the narrow one gets used less often, but I figured sweat was definitely a factor

I've been totally immersing mine and drying it out so far without any problems.

Can't be all that different than sweat itself. If we're not supposed to be getting these wet, then we shouldn't be doing VR workouts at all.

Re: VR

#259

Post by 746F7475 »

> Because VR games are so physical, gaming will no longer be perceived as an unhealthy activity. I could have used this growing up.

What kind of VR games are you playing? I haven't seen a single physically demanding VR game (unless you count standing "physical"). Unless everyone is going to have a dedicated room for their games or we come up with some kind of rental halls there won't be any physical activity in VR games just because there is no room to move around.

Sure ducking and crawling is somewhat more physical that just sitting and playing games, but not by much.

Re: VR

#260

Post by meheleventyone »

carlosdp wrote: post #168
EScott11 wrote: post #157

"3. New frameworks. Building and iterating VR apps is going to have to get a lot easier." Hasn't Unity already cemented itself as the go-to framework for VR? Has anyone seen anything better?

Sure, but Unity is a game engine, I think he means more like Xcode is to iOS dev as _____ is to VR. Unity isn't optimized for making general applications, although it looks like they want to head in that direction for VR.

I'm curious what you feel general applications need? I come from a games background and am in current heavy R&D for VR and AR applications. I tend to feel VR is much more like a game than anything else. You're fundamentally working in 3D space with tracked game controllers in a simulation that updates at 60/90/120Hz. Most of what's lacking for common application development is the sort of things we won't see until there are some mature VR/AR operating systems. AR in particular really needs to allow multiple programs to run simultaneously. There's not really the need for that with multiple overlapping virtual realities right now.

I don't think Unity necessarily has things wrapped up but it would be really hard to eclipse them right now.

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