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Opera Neon concept browser

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Re: Opera Neon concept browser

#151

Post by gkya »

wongarsu wrote: post #134
gkya wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bookmarks and tabs are there already in all major OSS browsers.

Bookmarks and tabs are far from being easy, solved problems. For example adding a Firefox addon to display tabs vertically in a tree structure instead of a horizontal list has changed the way I use the internet (and I have always used a lot of tabs). In the end tabs are just like booksmarks, except that they keep state during a browsing session. I find it very weird that we keep those very similar concepts in complet…

> In the end tabs are just like booksmarks, except that they keep state during a browsing session.

Agreed.

I'd not say that there's no room for improvement WRT bookmarks and tabs, but this has nothing to do with the comment thread I responded to.

Re: Opera Neon concept browser

#152

Post by erpellan »

snowwolf wrote: post #38
StavrosK wrote: post #4

This made me realize how little innovation there is in the browser space today. Opera used to innovate extensively before the sale, and it looks like at least they're trying to keep doing it. I'm also hopeful for Vivaldi. Chrome and Firefox are completely stagnant, unfortunately.

Ahh, the paradox of being the market leader. Remember when Chrome tried to innovate with how we use bookmarks? [1] People cry out for innovation, but then freak out when said innovation happens. This is why disrupters are so successful - they can do something crazy and people will try it out and think - this is amazing. Because the mindset/psychology is that this is something new. But the market leader implements exa…

The solution is not to try to disrupt the main product but to artificially compete with it. Google could release a new, unbranded browser with all the experimental features.

Early adopters would flock to it, the comfortable majority would happily stick with what they know. Win win.

Re: Opera Neon concept browser

#153

Post by gcp »

pvg wrote: post #64
zzzcpan wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how little innovation there is in the browser space today That was the purpose of Chrome, I believe, to monopolize the browser market and make it very expensive for others to compete and innovate google's business model out of existence.

What does that even mean? They're sparing a potential competitor the entire R&D cost of a modern, cross-platform browser. I don't think Google developed Chrome out of sheer altruism but it's probably cheaper now to compete in the browser space than ever. It's unlikely to be profitable, though, in itself.

it's probably cheaper now to compete in the browser space than ever

In the browser space, yes. In the API and platform space, no. Every other browser has already resigned to just "do what Chrome does" instead of expecting Chrome to confirm to the standards as written.

Do you not see how this is a huge hedge for Google? You control the platform and APIs, you rule the world.

Microsoft used to understand this very well.

On top of that, if you have to compete in the browser space by forking off of Google's rendering engine and web platform, you're always going to be behind.

Re: Opera Neon concept browser

#154

Post by emptyfile »

V-2 wrote: post #30
StavrosK wrote: post #4

This made me realize how little innovation there is in the browser space today. Opera used to innovate extensively before the sale, and it looks like at least they're trying to keep doing it. I'm also hopeful for Vivaldi. Chrome and Firefox are completely stagnant, unfortunately.

I used Vivaldi for a couple of months. Plenty of goodness, and one major showstopper: it's slow. It's so very sluggish and slow. Something as trivial as tearing a tab off a window would take several seconds. Switching between tabs was laggy as well, once there were many. Every other browser felt blazingly fast after that. That's a pity since this type of issues usually indicates some deeper design problems that won't…

Yes opening a new window is at least 3x slower than Chrome and tearing off a tab is like... a 2 sec delay.

But honestly I have no problems with "regular" browsing.

The features are good enough to live with the slowdown, as others have said Vivaldi can never be as fast as Chrome.

Re: Opera Neon concept browser

#158

Post by colanderman »

eivarv wrote: post #104
Yhippa wrote: post #89

Split screen mode is such a good idea and I wonder why other browsers haven't implemented that yet. Would make devices like Chromebooks a lot more productive to me.

Vivaldi has already had this feature [0] for a while. [0]: https://vivalditips.com/efficiency/tab-tiling

La plus ça change, la plus la même chose.

(Happy Vivaldi/former Opera user here; it's bittersweet to see that Vivaldi seems to have truly taken the "had it first" mantle from Opera.)

EDIT: though on closer inspection, Neon's tiling feature seems different from Vivaldi's. Vivaldi's is tiling within a tab (actually a tab group); Neon's tiling seems to be at window-level. To me, Vivaldi's is more useful, as Neon's I can replicate in my window manager.

Re: Opera Neon concept browser

#159

Post by nialv7 »

erpellan wrote: post #152
snowwolf wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh, the paradox of being the market leader. Remember when Chrome tried to innovate with how we use bookmarks? [1] People cry out for innovation, but then freak out when said innovation happens. This is why disrupters are so successful - they can do something crazy and people will try it out and think - this is amazing. Because the mindset/psychology is that this is something new. But the market leader implements exa…

The solution is not to try to disrupt the main product but to artificially compete with it. Google could release a new, unbranded browser with all the experimental features. Early adopters would flock to it, the comfortable majority would happily stick with what they know. Win win.

Except now Google would have to maintain TWO massively complex project.

Also they kind of just did what you suggested with Duo,Allo and Hangouts.

Re: Opera Neon concept browser

#160

Post by [deleted] »

tornadoboy55 wrote: post #149
wolfgang42 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that an argument for better window management, not redoing it in a slightly different way in every single application? Of course, putting better window management in the OS would require the OS to offer hooks for 'new tab' etc, and then all the applications would have to be changed to use that facility instead of their own, which isn't particularly likely to happen any time soon.

Yeah, sounds what he really needs is i3.

[deleted]
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