Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

cbc.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 250 posts

Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#141

Post by bad_user »

peteretep wrote: post #96
baybal2 wrote: post #78

This is what comes out of Google allowing apps to read phone IMEI in Android. I have no concrete proof, but the reason why all major Chinese apps snoop after phone IMEI is said to be that the commies have secretly demanded Chinese dotcoms to collect and report phone IMEIs. For example if you have a 6.0 or later Android, Alibaba app will block you if you disabled the permission to read IMEI or it detects spoofing. htt…

> Google allowing apps to read > phone IMEI in Android An unpopular sentiment, but this is why I love iOS. I genuinely don't think any of my apps can meaningfully spy on me without my having told them they may. I even get reminders if I've let an app read my location in the background, to check that's what I want to do.

Even though I like Android more, I have to agree that iOS has had a better privacy story.

But even iOS has problems. For example I cannot force apps like Waze or Uber to only use my location while using them, you have to either disable location for them completely, or to allow them to take your location while running in the background.

It's an either/or proposition and the result is that Waze and Uber users do have their location tracked, because the apps are not usable with the location completely disabled and enabling location on demand is too painful. While in traffic, imagine sitting at a red light, wanting to turn on GPS navigation to take you home or something and having to enable location in iOS's settings.

And you may have given them permission, you may know about it, but are you going to stop using Waze and Uber if you don't agree? I think I know the answer for most people. And also, even with your permission, as a matter of fact it's still irresponsible to let them track your location in the background, even if you currently trust those companies.

Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#142

Post by metafunctor »

peteretep wrote: post #96
baybal2 wrote: post #78

This is what comes out of Google allowing apps to read phone IMEI in Android. I have no concrete proof, but the reason why all major Chinese apps snoop after phone IMEI is said to be that the commies have secretly demanded Chinese dotcoms to collect and report phone IMEIs. For example if you have a 6.0 or later Android, Alibaba app will block you if you disabled the permission to read IMEI or it detects spoofing. htt…

> Google allowing apps to read > phone IMEI in Android An unpopular sentiment, but this is why I love iOS. I genuinely don't think any of my apps can meaningfully spy on me without my having told them they may. I even get reminders if I've let an app read my location in the background, to check that's what I want to do.

This is exactly why I use iOS over Android on my main phone. With iOS, I only need to trust Apple (approximately). They have a pretty good track record of respecting their users' privacy, and enforcing app vendors to do the same.

With Android, I need to trust a lot more parties, like Google, the hardware vendor, and every app I use to not do something crazy or shady without asking or notifying me first.

Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#143

Post by techbio »

schoen wrote: post #38
patmcguire wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the phrase "grim meathook future"

Apparently its origin is https://nullrefer.com/?https://www.jwz.org/blog/2005/09/the-... (which I didn't know). Edit: thanks to people in this thread for pointing out JWZ's anti-HN redirection and a workaround to hide the referer header.

...and with an earlier partial origin from Hunter S. Thompson, with "reality" predating "future":

http://www.whysanity.net/monos/fearandloathing.html

Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#144

Post by pdkl95 »

rconti wrote: post #126
samstave wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please ELI5; What info about your actions can IMEI info/actions give anyone with access?

I'm not really clear on why it's that much worse than having your phone number; with the right access, the phone number is all you need to track a user across global cell networks anyway. Though the IMEI should be exposed to a Stingray type device, so you'd be able to track users without access to the cell networks, you'd just have to set up a bunch of radios. And you wouldn't be able to shake it by swapping SIMs. Th…

Also, after paying for or otherwise gaining access to SS7[1], the IMEI may also allow more active types of attack[2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signalling_System_No._7

[2] https://media.ccc.de/v/31c3_-_6249_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201412271...

Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#145

Post by ralfd »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #81

Oracle maintains a database of personal information for billions of people. The US corporate surveillance web is rich in complexity. Before we judge China, lets make sure we know what we're comparing them to. I highly encourage anyone interested in the subject to watch this talk from last month's Chaos Computer Club Congress. "Corporate surveillance, digital tracking, big data & privacy: How thousands of companies ar…

I would say that forcing someone to use an universal ID provides a way stronger and more reliable form of tracking, than a wibbly wobbly system which needs thousands of marketing companies which maybe fulfill their corporate promises and maybe not.

Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#146

Post by sametmax »

demosthenes111 wrote: post #76
EGreg wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure you can

Care to expand on that?

You need a network of people you can trust, or build some fake lifes, or do a lot of things in parallel of the system. Most of the time all of them together. It's work, but it's possible.

The problem is: it's more work for ordinary people. The systems in place are making it difficult for citizen to exist outside of the system, change it, or express differences. But it doesn't make it as difficult for criminals to be criminals, because those accept destructive consequences of their acts.

Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#147

Post by Tarq0n »

agentcoops wrote: post #82
mistermann wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did American corporations not gift China with a massive amount of free, working out of the box technology to get them going?

"History is like a grandmother; it loves the younger grand-children. To the latecomers it gives not the bones but the marrow, while Western Europe has hurt her fingers badly in her attempts to break the bones."

That seems ignorant of the cumulative advantage that Europe enjoys to this day. If anything it illustrates how technological development is shared on a global scale, allowing anyone to catch up to the latest standard of industrialization if they can find the necessary investment.

Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#148

Post by ralfd »

oblio wrote: post #135
idra wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1989 is also modern China ruled by Deng Xiaoping and in no way Maoist China.

If we judge them by their history and by their results, the image changes quite a bit. They were on the verge of a major economic breakthrough and they needed political stability. Also, historically political instability in China lead to millions of people dieing. I don't approve of their actions, they reacted way too late and were too violent. A faster intervention, something like mass arrests (+ releases after ever…

> It's easy to judge them from outside.

To be fair, isn't that the only way to judge this? China forbids discussion of the Tiananmen Square protests and censors informations, younger generations aren't even aware of it.

Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#149

Post by iklos55 »

idra wrote: post #119
verst wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm German and (as stereotypes would have it) extremely privacy conscious. Having lived in the US for over a decade I've reluctantly come to terms with the lesser privacy standards here. For a long time I refused to keep a lot of information on Facebook as Facebook seemed to only consider privacy as an afterthought after users expressed outrage (I appreciate transparency about the use of data so I can make my own dec…

No it's not. There's Whatsapp for starters, which isn't blocked in China. There's always email. If your Chinese friends are ignorant about privacy, it doesn't mean you need to sacrifice yours. > the utility of using WeChat or Baidu Maps was simply too great "Give me convenience or give me death"

This is amazing - you're saying that Wechat has privacy issues but advertise Whatsapp.

Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#150

Post by rconti »

stpe wrote: post #134
rconti wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Yes, I've always had to use my passport with my Eurail passes; though often it's to prove I'm an American who is eligible for the cheaper pass. 2. No, only in certain countries. I've bought SIMs from vending machines in Iceland and Denmark. In Italy the merchant made me seriously promise, I really mean it to send him a photo of my passport as soon as I returned home with my SIM. He gave me his personal gmail addre…

> IIRC I could not buy a SIM in Sweden as a non-resident though. You can definitely buy a SIM-card in Sweden without any kind of identification. However, if it is a SIM-card with a (non prepaid) subscription, THEN you have to ID yourself and be credit worthy (since you can potentially run up a huge bill that is invoiced afterwards).

Right, I'm an idiot. I have a Swedish SIM somewhere. It was Germany I was thinking of (and then, 3mo later, on a subsequent trip, easily bought a SIM anyway). So much misinformation out there -- and I suppose I'm not helping.

It's amazing how hard it is (as a foreigner) to come by solid information on the legal situation around SIM card purchases. It seems every company is different, and the more restrictive ones have an incentive to make it sound like a legal issue rather than a business decision.

Post reply on HN