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China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

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Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#131
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistory_(fictional)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large-scale_macroeconometric_m... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_economics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Earth_Simulator_Project

Damn. No offense meant to the parent (because I wasn't even smart enough to come up with this on my own in 2017, much less the 1940s), but it's humbling to see someone having such insight 70 years ago.

Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#132
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep voicing concerns about Google Wallet in that respect but nobody takes it seriously.

That's because everyone knows that nobody really uses Google Wallet.

sshhhh, if parent keeps voicing their concerns, sooner or later they're bound to be within earshot of someone who uses Google Wallet.

Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#133
post #11

Many people might not know, in US, credit card transactions/payments are on sale by various sources. There's a very active market for this and some fintech startups are solely based on this kind of data. Since most of our financial life is based on credit card, we are under surveillance at a micro level in a similar situation. The issue is we not only use 'services', we handle data to the service providers. Data unde…

Those who have educated themselves about the Snowden leaks know that countries such as the US and the UK do by no means lag behind China, as far as mass surveillance is concerned.

Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#134
post #127
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When going overseas, all of those are required anyways: 1. The DB wants to see id (that they can verify) for Eurorail passes. The DB or the Belgian rail people require seeing the purchasing CC. 2. Buying a sim in europe requires a passport. 3. Most things you sign up for in the US requires a phone number. Loyalty programs certianly do. 3.1 Walgreens requires your ID in hand to scan it to verify that you're "over 21"…

1. Yes, I've always had to use my passport with my Eurail passes; though often it's to prove I'm an American who is eligible for the cheaper pass. 2. No, only in certain countries. I've bought SIMs from vending machines in Iceland and Denmark. In Italy the merchant made me seriously promise, I really mean it to send him a photo of my passport as soon as I returned home with my SIM. He gave me his personal gmail addre…

> IIRC I could not buy a SIM in Sweden as a non-resident though.

You can definitely buy a SIM-card in Sweden without any kind of identification. However, if it is a SIM-card with a (non prepaid) subscription, THEN you have to ID yourself and be credit worthy (since you can potentially run up a huge bill that is invoiced afterwards).

Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#135
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on. 16 years is modern China not Maoist China.

1989 is also modern China ruled by Deng Xiaoping and in no way Maoist China.

If we judge them by their history and by their results, the image changes quite a bit. They were on the verge of a major economic breakthrough and they needed political stability. Also, historically political instability in China lead to millions of people dieing.

I don't approve of their actions, they reacted way too late and were too violent. A faster intervention, something like mass arrests (+ releases after everyone cooled down) would have probably been the best compromise.

It's easy to judge them from outside.

Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#136
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im comparing China to other countries that were similarly poor in 1980-- much of the world, including the second biggest country, India. China did much better than them. I don't think any other society in history has lifted as many people out of poverty in as short a time.

Why not compare China to countries that were similarly poor in the 1950s? China, Korea, Taiwan were comparable then, but Korea and Taiwan have leaped ahead now due to saner government. If anything how poor China is in PPP GDP per capita terms vs Taiwan/Korea should be taken as an indictment of how terrible the government's been.

Because getting something to happen in a large country is much much harder than in a smaller country. China is literally 20 times the size of Korea AND Taiwan.

To achieve growth in a small country, you can be nimble and find relatively small market opportunities and then exploit them relentlessly. That simply doesn't scale to 1bn+ people.

Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#137

Oracle maintains a database of personal information for billions of people. The US corporate surveillance web is rich in complexity. Before we judge China, lets make sure we know what we're comparing them to. I highly encourage anyone interested in the subject to watch this talk from last month's Chaos Computer Club Congress. "Corporate surveillance, digital tracking, big data & privacy: How thousands of companies ar…

Yup. Here's the thing too. When people troll online, they think hiding behind an alias is enough. You can still be traced back. I am sure the government keep tabs of all your history, even if you are not a person of interest at the moment.

Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#138
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lies. Fights are very common, especially in the north-east. Foreigners are often assaulted for being foreigners. Last year, a foreigner-Chinese couple was attacked by a sword-wielding man for being a foreigner-Chinese couple in one of the busiest areas of Beijing, rife with police. The woman died [1]. Roads are very friendly to pedestrians indeed, where the driver will most likely try to run you over again to kill yo…

> Fights are very common, especially in the north-east. I would say per-capita stats are ideal for objective comparisons rather than picking individual instances. Would you have those by any chance?

Unfortunately, the problem with stats from China is that they are most certainly fake. Even if I had those, they would arguably be worse than anecdotal evidence. I provide fake economic stats as an example, since it's something the rest of the world cares and writes about [1] [2].

So take this as a personal account from someone who lived in China for over a decade.

[1] http://fortune.com/2015/12/14/china-fake-economic-data/

[2] https://www.ft.com/content/0361c1a4-bcfe-11e6-8b45-b8b81dd5d...

Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#139

I was really surprised to see my Chinese friend pay the restaurant bill using WeChat, just by flashing a QR code. Which means they know all the data a typical social network can handle, but also how much you are paying where.

I keep voicing concerns about Google Wallet in that respect but nobody takes it seriously.

Is any service better? Apple Pay?

Re: China has wealth of data on what individuals are doing at a micro level

#140
post #127
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When going overseas, all of those are required anyways: 1. The DB wants to see id (that they can verify) for Eurorail passes. The DB or the Belgian rail people require seeing the purchasing CC. 2. Buying a sim in europe requires a passport. 3. Most things you sign up for in the US requires a phone number. Loyalty programs certianly do. 3.1 Walgreens requires your ID in hand to scan it to verify that you're "over 21"…

1. Yes, I've always had to use my passport with my Eurail passes; though often it's to prove I'm an American who is eligible for the cheaper pass. 2. No, only in certain countries. I've bought SIMs from vending machines in Iceland and Denmark. In Italy the merchant made me seriously promise, I really mean it to send him a photo of my passport as soon as I returned home with my SIM. He gave me his personal gmail addre…

From June 2017 there will be no extra dataroaming charges in the EU. So you could buy a non-registered SIM card in The Netherlands (you can even buy them at the checkout counter at the supermarket) and use it all over EU member states.

Strange situation...

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