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Open offices are bad for us

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Re: Open offices are bad for us

#141

Post by silvestrov »

chrisbennet wrote: post #113
logfromblammo wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once interviewed over a video call. I asked, "I notice you have an open office there. Where do the developers sit in relation to the sales and customer service teams?" They cut the interview short, and I never heard from them again. They know we don't like sitting next to someone yapping on the phone all day. They just don't care .

Bingo. They know it reduces productivity but apparently the productivity hit is worth the cost savings. And frankly, from a business perspective, they could be right. Just don't tell me its "to enhance collaboration" [don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining]. Perhaps I was too harsh, there probably are some businesses that actually don't know that developers are much different from customers support, accountants…

There are a lot of businesses where the social status hierarchy is much more important than productivity.

As long as the company can survive, they just don't want to give the bottom-rungs much at all.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#143

Post by Arizhel »

OpenDrapery wrote: post #16
jMyles wrote: post #4

Am I the only one left on HN who prefers open plan? I've done some of my best work for open plan companies. I have a particularly fond memory of when Reelio rented space at Blueprint (healthcare incubator in NYC). We stayed up very late, listened to loud music, and did some of the best work of our lives. I remember one night in particular, listening to the soundtrack from "O Brother Where Art Thou," when asynchrony a…

The things that I enjoyed at 25 years old are not the same things that I enjoy at 40. Well, some are. But not all.

That's weird; the things I enjoyed at 25 are almost all the same things I enjoy now at 40. The only thing that's really different is that I eat better food now and I've cut out the sodas and junk food, and I'm more diligent about getting exercise (mainly on the weekends). I also seem to do better with dating for some reason than I did at 25. But my interests are pretty much all the same, from musical tastes to literary interests to hobbies (electronics, programming), though perhaps a little better developed.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#144

Post by Maro »

chris_7 wrote: post #111
Maro wrote: post #98

I've been working in open office environments for the last 5+ years, also at one of AmaFaceGooSoft. I find it's a non-issue, it doesn't bother me or others, I can't recall a time in the last 1-2 years when someone complained about it. Saying that o.o. is not effective is a bit fishy given how successful some of the companies employing it are. I remember 10+ years ago at my first job we had a nice office building (it…

Do you have a "shut up" rule, though? I have to endure shared music, discussions about sportsball or TV shows, people making calls, etc. while trying to use a debugger a meter away (pack 'em in!). I could possibly tolerate on-topic discussions, but off-topic stuff belongs in a break room.

Office is for work not play. At the really good/successful companies there's very strong work ethic, so people are not socializing on the floor, making calls, listening to music without headphones. In that case I'd say you have a culture/people management issue, not an office layout issue.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#145

Post by cmdrfred »

jMyles wrote: post #55
quanticle wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense, but I would suggest that you are highly atypical as a programmer. The vast majority of programmers (including myself) that I've spoken with prefer quiet, static backgrounds. Now, that's not to say that you need your own office to provide a quiet, static background, but it's just a whole lot easier that way. I interviewed last year at a very "tech-bro" type office in downtown Seattle. It was exactly as you…

> It was exactly as you described your office. It was not even three in the afternoon, and they had some loud European techno playing. ...but that's... not how I described the office in question.

I dislike all music, not just in a programming setting. I would not be productive in such a situation.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#146

Post by mti27 »

Oh and here's another time when they SUCK: If they're not part of the "office culture" i.e. it's only IT who uses them. So, you have to play by both sets of rules. Get used to continuous interruptions because you'll be branded "not a team player" when you don't remove your headphones to say hi to everyone who comes into your area!

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#147

Post by learc83 »

amyjess wrote: post #38
tgb wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I'm confused. If you like cube farms and cube farms are more likely in higher cost real estate and urban real estate is more expensive, wouldn't you prefer urban offices?

I want to avoid open offices where people sit on long benches shoulder to shoulder or just have a bunch of desks jammed together. A guy I know who works at Dell recently got moved from a cube to one of those, he's posted pictures of his workspace, and just looking at those pictures set off my claustrophobia badly. The cubes at my company are huge. If company policy here didn't forbid photography, I'd show you. I'd gu…

>people sit on long benches shoulder to shoulder

How do you sit on a bench for 8 hours a day?

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#148

Post by vdnkh »

smelendez wrote: post #21

Open offices are awful, but they're here to stay for the same reason more adults are living with roommates and relatives: high real estate prices. Working remotely is one solution, but many companies don't think it would work for them. Personally, I'd make the shared area for solitary work only: no work discussions longer than a minute at work areas (use a conference room, take a walk or Slack), no eating at work are…

> no eating at work areas

As a person who hates the sound of people chewing loudly, when you eat at your desk, please be considerate of people like me. Chewing with your mouth open bothers more people than you think. Should fall under standard don't-bother-people decorum like showering and brushing your teeth but it doesn't.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#149

Post by garrettdimon »

A lot of the comments here seem to focus on socialization and feeling like you're in a community, but closed offices don't preclude this.

I work at Wildbit (the company referenced in the article), and we have family-style lunches around a big table and plenty of common areas where socialization happens in the mornings, during lunch, when people make coffee, and plenty of other times.

The key is that when folks are working, they can do so in their office and stay focused. It's a balance of the two. Quiet space when folks need to focus and social space for other times. Having private offices and half the team working remotely doesn't affect socialization. We just tend to have better separation between the two so that they don't blur into each other or impact others who are trying to stay focused.

Re: Open offices are bad for us

#150

Post by mixmastamyk »

jonas21 wrote: post #136
a1a wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the main takeaways from the story tho. In an open office those who need silence cannot get it, even if there are private rooms available: "Some of us even feel that escaping to a quiet room is a sign of weakness" and "it can feel as if we’re not pulling our weight if we’re not present"

Over ear headphones are a pretty good workaround if you don't want to be distracted by the noise.

A visual barrier may be needed also if you've got people roaming around. At one place we had large black fold out cardboard pieces to alleviate that. Was kind of absurd, but better than nothing.
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