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Why Many Cities Have No Money

strongtowns.org

61–70 of 424 posts

Re: Why Many Cities Have No Money

#61
post #18

I can't say much about mathematics of taxes described in the article, but I always thought that Soviet Union got a lot of it's city planning very much right. Even a small town is built as a relatively tight formation of high-rises, yet leaving plenty of public space and greenery in the middle. The quality of life in the town that I grew up in is super high, because everything one might need: school, hospital, store,…

Town's have totally different economics. My town is fiscally solvent, takes are of it's infrastructure, and doesn't much raise taxes. And we are very spread out, with an average lot size of 2 acres. Small roads are the responsibility of the town. Bigger roads (there aren't many) are the responsibility of the county. I'll claim that the layout of the town doesn't matter nearly as much as the fiscal discipline of the t…

That's not quite correct... fiscal discipline isn't going to make most suburb-heavy cities in America solvent. You can't cut your way to profitability in the long term, you can only stave off bankruptcy in the short term.

The article is saying that mostly-suburb cities are not sustainable. They cost more to build and maintain over the long term than the majority of cities can recoup in taxes. That has little to do with employees, they are mostly talking about straight-line capital costs to dig up the streets and install new sewer lines. Even worse is that many cities grew in a relatively small post-war boom so a lot of that infrastructure will need replacing at the same time.

Towns don't typically provide all of water, sewer, storm sewer, and other such services... they might provide water. They can also just dig up everyone's yard to replace what infrastructure they do have because things are more spread out (lost of "wasted" land between the house and road) and far fewer people are disrupted (that also means projects can be done at a slower pace). They also have a much sparser police and fire department, far fewer parks, etc.

Re: Why Many Cities Have No Money

#62
post #46
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Making asset sales/tenders/expenditure very public and show comparable cost ratios. E.g. cost per km of sewer I think this is one of the main drivers in favoring cheap and punishing quality. I agree with 2 and 3, though I'd argue that private jails are one of the things that should be bought back in house.

> I think this is one of the main drivers in favoring cheap and punishing quality. The problem comes with evaluating quality. There are issues with over-valuing cheapness, but there are equally issues with using high-cost as an indicator of quality too.

Could cities not do something where they pay 50% of the construction bill over the expected lifetime of the project, with a big chunk of it at the end? The cost of unexpected repairs would simply get deducted from this money.

It would mean that only big companies could take on these projects (because they'd only be making 50% of their money right away), but they could still subcontract out to smaller companies and pay them 100%.

Re: Why Many Cities Have No Money

#63
post #58
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are significant economies of scale for infrastructure that happen with density. The amount of road surface a tall, mixed-use building requires per occupant is dramatically less than what a detached single family home does, but the latter road needs more maintenance than what the taxes on that single-family home provide for.

Density brings costs of its own, though. There's a reason everything is more expensive in dense areas.

>Density brings costs of its own, though

That's very self-evident. What matters is that density means costs rise at a slower rate than income and because density tends to raise prices (the area is more desirable all else equal).

Most of the cost of installing water pipes is in digging up the street and paying people to lay the pipes. By comparison putting in a small pipe costs the same as a huge one. Suburbs need small pipes spread over a larger distance to reach X people. High-rises need large pipes over a much smaller distance to reach the same number of people. Even if you assume property values per person were identical and taxes identical the dense area has a massive cost advantage.

Re: Why Many Cities Have No Money

#64

> When we added up the replacement cost of all of the city's infrastructure -- an expense we would anticipate them cumulatively experiencing roughly once a generation -- it came to $32 billion. A generation is what, 25 years? If you expect to replace all roads/electricity poles/sewers etc every 25 years you seriously need to look a quality. For this I feel this whole article is off. > Humans are predisposed to highly…

A concrete road is good for 50 years at best. Water and sewer lines somewhere between 50-100 years.

Re: Why Many Cities Have No Money

#65
post #24
post #12

What a crock. This is an extremely biased presentation meant to prime the reader for the awful right wing plan he's going to unveil in his next blog post. No doubt privatizing the infrastructure to "relieve" the taxpayer of the burden. Never mind that somehow it is still going to have to be paid for and if it's privatized we will have to pay more so the new owner can make a profit. The reality is cities are insolvent…

> This is an extremely biased presentation meant to prime the reader for the awful right wing plan he's going to unveil in his next blog post. Maybe, but urban densification is a very left wing thing.

Living in such a manner that one can pay for necessities is a conservative virtue.

Re: Why Many Cities Have No Money

#66
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curing cancer with AIDS? No thanks.

You prefer that your local neighborhood be administered by a national bureau of neighborhood affairs?

Homeowners associations are abominations. They put "property value" above everything else to the point that you're not allowed to have the wrong brand of car or put your garbage out before midnight the night before it's collected. They should honestly be illegal.

Re: Why Many Cities Have No Money

#67

> When we added up the replacement cost of all of the city's infrastructure -- an expense we would anticipate them cumulatively experiencing roughly once a generation -- it came to $32 billion. A generation is what, 25 years? If you expect to replace all roads/electricity poles/sewers etc every 25 years you seriously need to look a quality. For this I feel this whole article is off. > Humans are predisposed to highly…

> This is not true. One of the best test for predicting a child success is seeing if they will defer a treat now for more treats later. Many people have the sacrifice now for a better future instinct.

Surely, any intelligent child would factor in the rate of interest (additional treats earned per unit of time) and bond price (how many treats are sacrificed right now) before making their decision. Automatically saying yes to more treats later is analogous to not caring whether you earn 0.1% interest or 10%, and that's certainly not intelligent.

Promising more treats later in exchange for treats now is exactly what a bond is, and any wise investor would factor in rate of interest/coupon rate.

Re: Why Many Cities Have No Money

#68
Why are high rises so much more profitable to the city? Is it just that a larger part of the infrastructure (stairwells, elevators, power distribution, water supply, sewage, and related) are privatized and managed by someone with an eye on the bottom line?

Cities seem extremely poor paying for infrastructure based on performance. Water supplies should be paid for uptime, percent of the population they deliver water to, and quality of the water. Road companies should be paid by lanes * miles * years they last (according to some quality metric for common road failure methods). Bridges similar. If someone builds a building for the city they should be paid by the usable square foot and an incentive for delivery time.

Re: Why Many Cities Have No Money

#69
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expand on this? I don't follow how fiat currency pertains to city budgets and the net cost/benefit of public infrastructure.

Simple: It creates misguided incentives in all kinds of directions. The simple idea that money is limitless has led to municipalities over-promising on pension benefits for just one example. Who got these developments approved? The developers who made millions and extracted the wealth in partnership with the taxpayers. Same as it ever was.

> The simple idea that money is limitless has led to municipalities over-promising on pension benefits for just one example.

Would I be right in restating your argument like this? "A fiat currency allows the state to inflate away loans. That incentivizes taking very large loans, which in turn means the state builds infrastructure it cannot actually afford."

Assuming it is, I'd like to note at least a few things.

On fiat currency

This is implicitly, in my reading of it, arguing fiat currency is distinct from commodity currency vis-a-vis inflation: If we had the gold standard, the state would not be able to inflate loans away, and the issue would go away.

As I'm sure you're aware, this is not the case - every major state in existence have inflated their commodity currencies away to pay state debt. If you had tried to buy a pound (lb) sterling silver using a Pound (£) Sterling in 1913, you'd be sorely disappointed.

If you're not aware of this, Adam Smiths extensive exposition on policy and inflation through dilution of metal currency in Roman, French and British history is a fascinating part of Wealth of Nations, albeit dreadfully boring due to Adams use of prose instead of tables to present his data.

On inflation

Independent of this - the argument is nonsensical to me. Yes, the state can pay off loans through inflating currency. There is a crucial aspect missing to the argument: This would only be a problem if the state acted as if this were true, but it in fact was not.

The fact is that the state can pay off debt by inflating the currency. Hence, the argument must be restated as "1) The state can pay loans through inflation, 2) the state takes on loans, because it knows it can pay them off through (1), and 3) the state is then unable to pay these loans". This is obviously a logical error.

On loans

And finally - this is not about loans. The article is a simple calculation saying "here's how much this infrastructure costs to maintain, and here is now much the tax base around it can pay for". It's not about the cities inability to pay off the initial leverage it used to first build the infrastructure, it's about building and paying off infrastructure that is incorrectly dimensioned for it's tax base.

The fact that the initial construction can be discounted through inflation does not remove the cities incentive to build infrastructure it can then pay for in perpetuity.

Re: Why Many Cities Have No Money

#70
post #50
post #5

In the intro, it is stated that "literally five or less" cities do not have these monetary problems. I'm curious what those cities are, and why are they special. If the answer isn't "they've always used accrual accounting", I don't buy that most cities are doomed due to accounting problems.

The article author Charles Marohn addresses this question in the comments section. His entire comment response: " They are the ones with a very dominant urban core, where the urban fabric overwhelms the horizontal, auto-oriented stuff. I'm not saying these places won't struggle for the same reasons Lafayette will, but I suspect their decline/contraction will be less pronounced, less a defining characteristic. NYC, Bo…

The Author should spend time in Chicago. We've got ridiculous taxes on everything, general sales tax itself is almost 11% now, and nothing in this city works. The trains barely function close to on time, the streets are riddled with potholes, and the police are afraid of PR problems so much crime is escalating.

Also, the weather sucks.

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