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H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

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Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#341

Post by Retric »

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #337
Retric wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For 65,000 people and bidding based on salary, 300k sounds about right IMO. Think brain surgeons and the worlds best security experts not just DBA's.

Security experts are not paid like surgeons or developers. I wonder what you mean with "just" DBAs.

I know some security people in the 450+k/year range, and I hear 8 figures is possible.

As to just DBA, like programmers there is a long tail salary range but, the majority make under 150k.

PS: At various times you hear things like the Teaching shortage, or the Nursing shortage. But, that just supply and demand working as intended when a job does not pay very well few people are going to do it. However, when a job does pay well and you can't find people that's a separate problem.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#342

Post by pps43 »

shams93 wrote: post #245
geebee wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that I'm sympathetic to employers who want to pay less. Keep in mind, the US takes in well over a million immigrants a year, and has a huge internal workforce. The H1B was created to help employers find critical and highly skilled workers that are in desperately short supply in the US. "Oh, but we can't afford to pay them a lot of money, that's not fair!" isn't the sort of argument that tends to evoke mu…

Its stupid to begin with, if you can't fill a skill, train somebody, the federal government does this for gigs that require security clearance. You never need to go outside the country for talent. The h1b program enables age discrimination, once you hit 40 you are pushed out for young immigrant labor, the position was occupied but they want to save money so out you go to poverty just when the IRS was counting on you…

How long will it take to "train somebody" if you need to translate technical documentation from English to Japanese?

Some of foreign countries have free education. Why not hire their best graduates? They don't have to pay back student loans and can therefore comfortably accept lower salaries than their US counterparts.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#343

Post by imtringued »

davidw wrote: post #74
serge2k wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would tank salaries.

I doubt it. IT work is pretty easy to send abroad as it is, so if an employer is only looking at cost, that's already been an option for the past 10/15 years. It's only going to get easier in the future. And if it were , across the board, a lot of other things would get a bit cheaper too, no? Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy

It's not easy when you consider time zone differences.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#344

Post by taway_1212 »

chrisbennet wrote: post #152
davidw wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> allocating most of the costs to the actual H1B workers If it were not a good option for them, they wouldn't sign up for it, so it has more benefits than costs for them. In terms of competition.... IT is a very globalized industry already. > permanent legal residency to workers who have critical skills that make them attractive to industry. Once they are here, permanent residency along with all of the benefits that…

"If it were not a good option for them, they wouldn't sign up for it, so it has more benefits than costs for them." The same could be said for child labor though couldn't it?

And I'm sure there are children out there for whom closing of a local factory (because it breaks the child labor ban) would be a tragedy. IMO ban on child labor should be imposed only if the state is equipped to provide adequate material help to children who would lose jobs this way.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#345

Post by taway_1212 »

Manishearth wrote: post #290
usaphp wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I worked hard than the Americans for 3 years !. They pretty well knew I was an indentured servant and paid me 79K/annum. All salary raises and promotions were going to a handful of lazy Americans who rolls into the office whenever they wish." You seem to have a pretty aggressive attitude towards people whose country gave you job and paid much more than you were making in your home country. You also seem to have a…

Are you aware that the majority of pre-revolution willing immigrants (so not counting slaves) to what eventually became the US came under indentured service? This is basically voluntary time-bound slavery. They, too, had a choice. They, too, had full rights to complain about it afterwards. It was a good thing that that was abolished. Not everyone coming here is fully aware of the consequences of what they are doing o…

> This is basically voluntary time-bound slavery. They, too, had a choice. They, too, had full rights to complain about it afterwards. It was a good thing that that was abolished.

If both parties are willing, I'm not sure if the state should meddle in their affairs. In the US indentured servitude was still practiced (in spite of the ban) well into the XX century.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#346

Post by eli_gottlieb »

shas3 wrote: post #132
geebee wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that I'm sympathetic to employers who want to pay less. Keep in mind, the US takes in well over a million immigrants a year, and has a huge internal workforce. The H1B was created to help employers find critical and highly skilled workers that are in desperately short supply in the US. "Oh, but we can't afford to pay them a lot of money, that's not fair!" isn't the sort of argument that tends to evoke mu…

"if the salary isn't really high..." How high? Why is 100k a magic number? 100k isn't even a big deal in SF or NYC. While a high skilled scientist working in say, Corning, NY at Corning Corp or Niskayuna, NY at GE's research labs, 100k enables a king's life. How would you adjust for experience? Perhaps a company sees immense potential and cultural fit in an employee and wants to groom them for future roles? The wages…

>How high? Why is 100k a magic number? 100k isn't even a big deal in SF or NYC.

Good point. How about high-skilled scientists get paid double that! Besides, the government has to run itself, including the immigration authorities, by taxing these salaries. Best they be high.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#347

Post by eli_gottlieb »

ubernostrum wrote: post #323
vostok wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example company B might not have the resources/revenue to outbid company A. If Company B doesn't have the resources to outbid Company A then we've decided, as a society, that whatever Company A is doing is more important that what Company B is doing. > Another counterexample of many for why an auction system is terrible: employee y could be a research scientist in industry contributing to the foundation of a ne…

then we've decided, as a society, that whatever Company A is doing is more important that what Company B is doing. Congratulations, you've invented oligarchy! Many tech startups are able to bid up wages not because they're "creating value", but because they have access to the pockets of a small number of venture capitalists. Which means that if you make VC-backed high salaries a necessary part of doing business, you'…

>Many tech startups are able to bid up wages not because they're "creating value", but because they have access to the pockets of a small number of venture capitalists. Which means that if you make VC-backed high salaries a necessary part of doing business, you've handed those VCs the literal authority to regulate commerce and decide who does and doesn't get to be in the market.

Very true. That's why we need to tax the VCs very highly and break up monopolistic firms.

All of which has nothing to do with the immigration system for skilled workers on temporary visas.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#348

Post by eli_gottlieb »

suryacom wrote: post #27

On one talks about the actual issue with the H1B. I'm a H1B holder from India, living and working in USA for past 10 years. The actual incentive for companies is that, an H1B holder from India has less rights, they cannot change job or even travel freely outside USA (for decades). That gives the employers full control of the employee. Any guess why companies only recruit from India and China? Because, the country bas…

>[Edit]: In my opinion, a possible fix shall be to give H1B holder job mobility. I.e., if TCS/Infosys brings in H1B holders to replace American workers; and those H1B holders leave TCS/Infosys the next day; then that business model will not work to begin with.

That, and to switch to a simple points system like most other Anglo countries use. If you have enough points, your residency clock starts ticking as soon as you start working and living in the USA, and doesn't reset or stop unless you commit a serious crime. If the clock counts all the way down, bam, Green Card.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#349

Post by mavelikara »

luckydata wrote: post #253
dntrkv wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any stats to back that claim up?

yes. In 2015 it was more than 50k people. Even if they all share rooms, it's a lot of demand on an housing stock that grows slowly.

From your link:

> About 10 percent of the LCAs approved last year, or 53,500, were for jobs in Silicon Valley and San Francisco.

But, it also adds that:

> More than one employee can be attached to an LCA, and there’s no limit on how many a company can submit. As a result, the number of LCAs accepted by the Department of Labor often far exceeds the number of H-1B visas issued.

Furthermore, when a person on H-1B already living in SJ or SV change jobs, they file a new LCA. This gets counted in the 53,500 number from the article.

Thus, IMO, it is incorrect to claim that "more than 50k people" moved into Bay Area on H-1B in 2015. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#350

Post by eli_gottlieb »

throwaway2017ab wrote: post #285
dmode wrote: post #67

I support many H1B reforms - it is essentially a broken program. Canadian and Australian immigration systems provide a good model to build off of a successful high skilled guest worker program. Of course, like everything in the US, an army of lobbyists will prevent such common sense programs to be implemented. Raising the minimum wage to 100K is the wrong approach. Computer science degree programs are a major source…

I am a beneficiary of such a program in Canada called Express Entry. I quit my H1B job in US and is currently working in Canada and my Permanent residence process is in progress. I expect to get it within an year. I was selected based on my skills rather than my luck(H1B lottery) Canada's express entry system is a skill based immigration system. I think Australia's is similar. Under the Canada's system, the visa is n…

For those wondering how Canada's system works (I've been looking into it), you get points based on the following simple factors:

* Age

* Language skills (English and French, measured via standardized exams)

* Level of education

* Level of education and/or job experience in Canada

* Job offer

* Desired destination to live in (easier to move if you want to go somewhere underpopulated)

* Personal savings to prevent you becoming a burden

If you get enough points, they invite you to obtain Canadian permanent residency. If you don't, you can still get a work visa, work for a while, and re-apply later. Compared to the US immigration system, it's freakishly straightforward and reasonable.

New Zealand is even simpler: they'll just start your residency process based on the mere existence of a job offer and a few checkboxes regarding age, language, and education. They've got a whole "Move to New Zealand" website now, with pretty pictures, clear instructions, and government webpages bragging about their high quality-of-life.

It really leaves one thinking, wow, this is what a First World country acts like.

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