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H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

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Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#151

Post by suryacom »

logfromblammo wrote: post #140
suryacom wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are on H1B past 6 years, then you will need the copy of approved I-140 petition to get the H1B transferred to the new employer. But, H1B visa holder does not have access to I-140 petition; it is employer's property.

Isn't that part of the mandatory public record that all H1B employers are required to maintain? Anyone can walk in off the street at your work location or company headquarters and ask to see it, including you. You might have to bring your own battery-powered scanner with you, though.

I think you are talking about is H1B-LCA document. I-140 petition is different, it is employer's property.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#152

Post by chrisbennet »

davidw wrote: post #55
Nrsolis wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is something that I've long suspected was going on with the H1B system. In essence, we have a limited "guest worker" program that allocates most of the economic benefits to the company (in terms of a compliant workforce that has little incentive or ability to take their skills to a competing company that might offer a better salary or career options) while allocating most of the costs to the actual H1B workers A…

> allocating most of the costs to the actual H1B workers If it were not a good option for them, they wouldn't sign up for it, so it has more benefits than costs for them. In terms of competition.... IT is a very globalized industry already. > permanent legal residency to workers who have critical skills that make them attractive to industry. Once they are here, permanent residency along with all of the benefits that…

"If it were not a good option for them, they wouldn't sign up for it, so it has more benefits than costs for them."

The same could be said for child labor though couldn't it?

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#153

Post by curun1r »

shas3 wrote: post #51
diogenescynic wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds awesome considering those body shops use up most of the H-1B quota and significantly underpay their employees compared to industry wages. For example, somewhere between 47% and 85% of H-1Bs are being significantly underpaid compared to their peers, evidence that the program is not being used to bring over workers with "specialized knowledge" as they claim--but to drive down wages. It makes sense though, when y…

I'm not sure about the bidding war. I've been in situations where companies are looking for people with specific skills (e.g. working with specific microbiology techniques) but would never be able to outbid what Facebook or someone in Bay Area would pay for generalist skills in another field. There is nowhere close to 100% elasticity in wages to make an auction system fair. Also, this would handicap companies in low-…

Another option would be to put in place a system where companies could be have their H1-B applications automatically approved if they maintain a certain ratio of citizens/green card holders to H1-Bs within the desired salary band and classification. Say, for example, you want to hire an H1-B engineer at $160k/yr and the required ratio is 4:1. If your engineering workforce within the $150k-$175k salary band is already greater than 4-1 non-H1-B, you should be allowed to hire an H1-B. But companies that try to abuse H1-Bs, either by hiring too large a percentage of their workforce or by underpaying them would have to use the lottery system, provided there are any H1-B slots left.

Such a system seems like it works for the large Facebooks and Googles of the world as well as smaller startups and companies in areas of the country with lower CoL. It also works for citizens, green card holders and H1-Bs, since it encourages employment of non-H1-B employees and similar wages for all types of employees. It would only penalize the body shops, those that underpay H1-Bs and those companies that rely on too large a percentage of H1-Bs for their workforce. The only thing you'd have to do is ensure that the local employees are roughly the same job function as the H1-Bs, so that companies couldn't offset underpaid H1-B engineers with similarly-paid customer support or similar gaming of the system.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#154

Post by serge2k »

yardie wrote: post #137
aianus wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any guess why companies only recruit from India and China? There are loads of Canadians [0] on TNs and H1Bs in the US and most don't particularly care about ever getting a green card. How do you explain their presence if you believe companies only recruit foreigners from poor countries in order to exploit their desire for US residency? [0] https://techvibes.com/2012/02/24/there-are-350000-canadians-...

If you're Canadian why are you getting a H1B? Get a TN. It's simpler, faster, and way less onerous than a H1B.

It's not dual intent for one thing. I have a TN but my company put in for H-1B for me so that I could switch and then have the option to get sponsored more easily if I decide I want a green card.

TN you can do it, but it's messier.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#155

Post by ashwinaj »

suryacom wrote: post #136
ashwinaj wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> H1B visa holder does not have access to I-140 petition I have the I140 petitions from the two employers that I had applied with. This sounds like you are talking about consulting companies who hold their employees hostage. No legitimate company can do that and you have legal recourse if they do.

>This sounds like you are talking about consulting companies who hold their employees hostage This thread is discussing a law -- that targets only consulting companies. >No legitimate company can do that and you have legal recourse if they do. That is not correct. There is nothing an H1B employee can do if his employer does not share the copy of I-140.

Well they also talk about removing the master's degree quota. So it's not just about shady consulting companies.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#156

Post by JumpCrisscross »

cmurf wrote: post #129
geebee wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that I'm sympathetic to employers who want to pay less. Keep in mind, the US takes in well over a million immigrants a year, and has a huge internal workforce. The H1B was created to help employers find critical and highly skilled workers that are in desperately short supply in the US. "Oh, but we can't afford to pay them a lot of money, that's not fair!" isn't the sort of argument that tends to evoke mu…

Why is it OK to pay a cheap wage for work done by an outsourced employee not in the U.S. for the benefit of a U.S. customer; but suddenly not OK when that person is in the U.S.? If the answer is merely, a critical plurality doesn't like that market outcome and has voted to legislate an alternative outcome, well OK. That's the system we have. But on principle, this must be admitted to be protectionism, it's the anti-t…

That's there and this is here. For better or for worse, I and other American voters are more responsible for our country than for others. If you think this way, and I think a lot of voters do, then accepting someone into your society carries a higher bar than buying something from a society.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#157

Post by whyileft »

MichaelBurge wrote: post #142
whyileft wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is an acute shortage of capable, knowledgeable workers trained in the skills that industry needs. Just like there is an acute shortage of NFL Quarterbacks that are capable of leading a team to a super bowl championship. The problem with this skills gap myth is that we are looking for people who are better than most of their peers in the industry. The will always be a shortage of top 10% performers in the indu…

This would only be true if companies needed better employees than their competitors. If you merely need someone capable of doing a job, there's no such limitation: it's logically-possible for 100% of software developers to be able to put a script in cron that runs a SQL query to generate a report.

Given enough time almost any very junior software developer from any amount of training could successfully complete that task. What you consider capable is that they can do it within a certain time frame and with a certain level of quality. That quality being higher than others and the time frame being faster than others.

Also, that expectation of time frame and quality level has increased significantly since 1985. The reason that has increased is because the average level software developer in 2017 can do that task quite a bit faster and of higher quality than the average software developer could do in 1985.

The definition of acceptable in any market changes with the pool of options available.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#158

Post by rurban »

shas3 wrote: post #79
berndsf wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(So, if you are one of five experts in the world on say, mining safety, you still have to wait 10 years for a permanent residency just by virtue of where you were born.) that's not correct. that person would be eligible for an O1. I haven't heard of any plans to change the mechanisms of the O1 visa

Let's assume that such a person passes a triage for O1 (there's no guarantee! Suppose there are two companies using some very specific technology, first company in the US poaches an employee from the Shanghai office of the second company for his narrow skill in this technology- would he necessarily be an individual with extraordinary ability? Unique ability, yes. Extraordinary "genius"? Hard to say). There is a signi…

O1 is even more abused by artists, like DJ's or dancers. There's nothing extraordinary required in the artistic field. Just a few references.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#159

Post by iamaaditya »

shas3 wrote: post #79
berndsf wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(So, if you are one of five experts in the world on say, mining safety, you still have to wait 10 years for a permanent residency just by virtue of where you were born.) that's not correct. that person would be eligible for an O1. I haven't heard of any plans to change the mechanisms of the O1 visa

Let's assume that such a person passes a triage for O1 (there's no guarantee! Suppose there are two companies using some very specific technology, first company in the US poaches an employee from the Shanghai office of the second company for his narrow skill in this technology- would he necessarily be an individual with extraordinary ability? Unique ability, yes. Extraordinary "genius"? Hard to say). There is a signi…

Recently, I have seen O1 being given pretty generously. Couple of people who I know who completed PhDs from mediocre University and less than 10 papers in total have all gotten their O1s. Yes they had to get reference letters and complete all the formality but nothing stellar or extra-ordinary was required.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#160

Post by _delirium »

nbakshi wrote: post #9

100K in Bay area is not equal to 100K in some other part of US. Also H1B is not only used by the IT industry but other industries as well, where paying 100K may be tough.

Maybe they don't need H1Bs then? The stated goal of the H1B is to attract talent that is otherwise unavailable in the United States. If someone is offering six figures and still can't find applicants, I'm willing to believe there is really no available talent. But if someone is offering $60k and can't find talent, an alternate hypothesis is: maybe you aren't offering enough to attract the talent? Have you tried $70k or $80k? You may argue that $60k is a fairly high salary for the area, but that isn't enough to establish that such talent is unavailable in the United States.

There are alternate rationales where it would be justifiable to support an H1B-type system in that case too, but the H1B system's stated rationale isn't to allow companies in lower-cost areas to hire cheap-ish labor when they aren't willing to pay the national going rate for the talent they're looking for.

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