Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

blogs.wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 387 posts

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#81

Post by joering2 »

suryacom wrote: post #27

On one talks about the actual issue with the H1B. I'm a H1B holder from India, living and working in USA for past 10 years. The actual incentive for companies is that, an H1B holder from India has less rights, they cannot change job or even travel freely outside USA (for decades). That gives the employers full control of the employee. Any guess why companies only recruit from India and China? Because, the country bas…

Oh, and while you're on it.. don't lose that Green Card!

It costs about $27 in Cali to get a dup of your lost DL [1]; while your Green Card replacement costs... $450! [2]

[1] http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/replace-license.php

[2] https://www.bridge.us/articles/misplace-green-card/

Its very obvious USCIS prays on the fact that most immigrants do not make enough money to actually hire (expensive) lawyer and take them to the court and fight this outrageous fee down to something reasonable. Obviously US citizens have no standing in such lawsuit cause one thing USC can never get is a Green Card :)

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#82

Post by geebee »

ashwinaj wrote: post #54
suryacom wrote: post #27

On one talks about the actual issue with the H1B. I'm a H1B holder from India, living and working in USA for past 10 years. The actual incentive for companies is that, an H1B holder from India has less rights, they cannot change job or even travel freely outside USA (for decades). That gives the employers full control of the employee. Any guess why companies only recruit from India and China? Because, the country bas…

> they cannot change job Correction: You can change jobs, but the green card process needs to start again but you keep your priority date. EDIT: You can change jobs to another "similar" position i.e. the job responsibilities should be similar. You can't move from an individual contributer to a manager position for example. In this case, the green card application will have to be done again. > That gives the employers…

I agree with your corrections, to an extent. However, it is also important to note that an H1B holder is limited in the kind of jobs he or she can take. An H1B holder would have a very difficult time changing fields or entering a very different kind of employment. Becoming a private consultant, or leaving the tech field for other, perhaps better, opportunities is not really an option.

So while I certainly agree with you that "they cannot change job" is inaccurate I also believe the statement "you are free to leave to another job" is misleading. You have some very limited mobility rights, but nothing approaching what a free member of the labor market would have (sadly, this is a big part of the appeal of these visas to many employers).

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#83

Post by whyileft »

Nrsolis wrote: post #36
suryacom wrote: post #27

On one talks about the actual issue with the H1B. I'm a H1B holder from India, living and working in USA for past 10 years. The actual incentive for companies is that, an H1B holder from India has less rights, they cannot change job or even travel freely outside USA (for decades). That gives the employers full control of the employee. Any guess why companies only recruit from India and China? Because, the country bas…

This is something that I've long suspected was going on with the H1B system. In essence, we have a limited "guest worker" program that allocates most of the economic benefits to the company (in terms of a compliant workforce that has little incentive or ability to take their skills to a competing company that might offer a better salary or career options) while allocating most of the costs to the actual H1B workers A…

> There is an acute shortage of capable, knowledgeable workers trained in the skills that industry needs.

Just like there is an acute shortage of NFL Quarterbacks that are capable of leading a team to a super bowl championship.

The problem with this skills gap myth is that we are looking for people who are better than most of their peers in the industry. The will always be a shortage of top 10% performers in the industry because the top 10% of the industry will always be the same amount.

EDIT: I should just clarify that I'm absolutely in favor of people coming from other countries to work in the US. That said, the H1B in its current form is often just indentured servitude and definitely needs to be adjusted. My statement is specifically addressing the skills gap myth.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#84

Post by jedberg »

throw345hn wrote: post #42

One of the problems with the highest bidder approach its going to favor senior devs. This is good thing but you also have to look at graduates who have come to the US to study and may not be able to earn that much immediately but are just as likely to earn a lot more in a few years. If the ruling forces them to move them, then it will result in draining the talent.

They really need to couple it with an automatic conversion of a student visa to a work visa upon graduating an accredited four year institution. You would need some protections to make sure that the university isn't just a funnel for back door visas, like requiring at least 50% enrollment by citizens or something like that, but it would be a great way to entice smart people to come here and stay here. And in fact remove a lot of the stress of graduating for a foreign student.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#85

Post by geebee »

shas3 wrote: post #51
diogenescynic wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds awesome considering those body shops use up most of the H-1B quota and significantly underpay their employees compared to industry wages. For example, somewhere between 47% and 85% of H-1Bs are being significantly underpaid compared to their peers, evidence that the program is not being used to bring over workers with "specialized knowledge" as they claim--but to drive down wages. It makes sense though, when y…

I'm not sure about the bidding war. I've been in situations where companies are looking for people with specific skills (e.g. working with specific microbiology techniques) but would never be able to outbid what Facebook or someone in Bay Area would pay for generalist skills in another field. There is nowhere close to 100% elasticity in wages to make an auction system fair. Also, this would handicap companies in low-…

I'm not sure that I'm sympathetic to employers who want to pay less. Keep in mind, the US takes in well over a million immigrants a year, and has a huge internal workforce. The H1B was created to help employers find critical and highly skilled workers that are in desperately short supply in the US.

"Oh, but we can't afford to pay them a lot of money, that's not fair!" isn't the sort of argument that tends to evoke much sympathy. We're talking about empowering corporations to bestow US live and work rights on an employee of their choosing, in an end-run around normal immigration procedures.

Honestly, if the salary isn't really high, I'm skeptical about whether this visa is being used properly.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#86

Post by nugget »

davidw wrote: post #39

Why not take a courageous approach and let people in who want to work? Don't tie them to one job. Don't pick arbitrary numbers of the 'right' number of immigrants. Don't try ever more complex schemes based on where people live and what job they do. Keep the government involved to vet them in terms of avoiding criminals, and let the market handle how many people to bring in, not government bureaucrats and politicians.…

One challenge is that people who grew up in America have totally different expectations in terms of quality of life and living standards than immigrants from poor countries who are willing to move here and start from scratch. A poor kid from India or China might move to Silicon Valley or NYC and spend a decade sharing a studio with 4-5 others in his/her situation, just for the chance to escape poverty back home. Is it fair to force two people from such different backgrounds to compete? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Either way, the American citizens who you are forcing to compete against a global labor pool all have the right to vote, and may cause unexpected political turbulence, which is what we saw in this last election (and, my gut says, just the tip of the iceberg in terms of what's to come).

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#87

Post by yazaddaruvala »

gopalv wrote: post #13

There are probably some Indians who are celebrating this ... a minimum 100k wage + a cost of living adjustment every 3 years. If this is like the 2015 bill, that also includes the requirement to sign them up for stock options, similar to a US employee. However, the rule does have a corner case which allows bonuses to be part of the 100k, so the employers might continue to pay low salaries all year round, with a dangl…

> with a dangled 40-50k bonus at the end of the year.

There is nothing wrong with this, unless they are "fired" a week before their bonus kicks in.

I would really like to see a "minimum guaranteed salary" (guaranteed to the government, not the employee). Basically, if a company employs an H1-B, they sign a contract with the government, such that that H1-B will cost the employer $X.

e.g. If they promise to pay at minimum $120K, but then fire the employee before paying them $60K. Then, at the end of they year, the company is fined 60K, or has to replace that candidate with another H1-B to fill that 60K void.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#88

Post by tn13 »

edblarney wrote: post #4

It's an interesting paradox ... the top users of H1s are foreign companies, like Infosys and Tata - they bring in people on these visas. So in a way, it's kind of 'insourcing' not 'outsourcing'. I truly wonder if those companies would opt to just leave their staff in India, and to hire mostly just customer-facing support types here otherwise. In that case, the US would lose a lot of tax revenue (and spending) from th…

I worked for outsourcing company in India, large hardcore Big-3 tech company in Silicon Valley and a Startup. I can give you a perspective on this.

H1B visas are used by two category of companies.

1. Google like company who needs expertise and hires directly. Treated at par with other google employees. 2. Infosys like company that has its fingers in far too many pies and essentially works to provide cheap labor to American clients.

(Note that "cheap labor" benefits American companies stay a float. An automotive company might have lowered its expenses by engaging Infosys. Take that benefit out and the company might think of moving to Mexico to reduce operating costs by engaging cheaper manual labor. Cheap labor can be seen as exploitation of the worker and hence we can think of that Indian guy on H1B as someone who is being exploited.)

Infosys can file 3000 petitions for H1B and win lotter for 2000 of them. Google can only hire 4 IIT students out of which only 2 make it to USA.

The best way forward is to keep H1B as highly valued employee visa with no cap but much higher salary cap, dual intent visa and no lottery.

Provide another visa to Infosys like company with no immigration intent. Hard limit of how many years they can stay in USA and keep track how how much economic benefit they bring.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#89

Post by nishs »

BhavdeepSethi wrote: post #59
throw345hn wrote: post #42

One of the problems with the highest bidder approach its going to favor senior devs. This is good thing but you also have to look at graduates who have come to the US to study and may not be able to earn that much immediately but are just as likely to earn a lot more in a few years. If the ruling forces them to move them, then it will result in draining the talent.

Students from universities already have an OPT valid for 36 months (12+24), which is sufficient time to move to the highest bidder approach.

> (12+24)

The 24 month extension is only available to STEM graduates.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#90

Post by TillE »

davidw wrote: post #39

Why not take a courageous approach and let people in who want to work? Don't tie them to one job. Don't pick arbitrary numbers of the 'right' number of immigrants. Don't try ever more complex schemes based on where people live and what job they do. Keep the government involved to vet them in terms of avoiding criminals, and let the market handle how many people to bring in, not government bureaucrats and politicians.…

I think Germany strikes a good balance: jobs must first be offered to German and EU citizens, and then you get a work visa that's tied to one company for a few years. After that, it's fairly painless to get an unrestricted visa and then permanent residency.
Post reply on HN