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From OS X to Ubuntu

nicolas.perriault.net

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Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#261

Post by thirdsun »

lobster_johnson wrote: post #119
wyldfire wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never been a product manager but IMO it probably goes something like this: "The framistan line is successful but I hear from our customers that we should have some options that add [x] and drop [y], while having support for more [z]." "We need to create a new line, a totally separate brand from framistan that has way more [x], [y] but no [z] at all. The competition has entered this space and there is clearly a m…

You're probably right. But it doesn't explain why Apple is so good at this and so few other companies aren't. They must realize the confusion they're creating among consumers. Is it because they're still rooted in 80s/90s PC culture? Nice brand names like MacBook doesn't preclude having precise model IDs, though. The MacBook range mostly has unique model names (and Apple publishes a full list [1]), for example. As a…

> Apple is so good at this and so few other companies aren't

> Nice brand names like MacBook doesn't preclude having precise model IDs, though. The MacBook range mostly has unique model names (and Apple publishes a full list [1]), for example.

I guess the difference is that Apple doesn't list each and every configuration option as a different product, but only shows them when it's relevant: During the purchase process / checkout. While Lenovo, Dell and Co. show a collection of slightly different configurations as separate cards in what looks like a very generic e-commerce theme, Apple wants you to make decisions step by step:

- Visit central product page (iMac / iPhone / Macbook / Macbook Pro / ...)

- Follow store / purchase link

- Select one of very few base models that are distinguishable by major (!) attributes (like screen size or the good/better/best-principle)

- Adjust details (CPU, RAM, etc.) as needed. Or don't and just opt for the default base model.

This process covers 27 different product variants in a step by step checkout workflow that is easy to grasp and understand by the customer.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#262

Post by Klover »

pjmlp wrote: post #226
qplex wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Linux is the only consortium of operating systems that still suffer from the inability to "just work out of the box". Google the laptop model + Linux before you buy it. That increases the odds of getting a "it works out of the box" experience. You'll also usually find pretty straightforward instructions how to get things going quickly if they do not work out of the box, or the simple fact that the machine is not wel…

> Google the laptop model + Linux before you buy it. That increases the odds of getting a "it works out of the box" experience. I would happily do this when was a university student about 20 years ago. Nowadays, I want to go whatever store (physical or online) and just take what I want to buy. Yes, there are some online stores for GNU/Linux, but as I discovered with the one I bought (Asus + Ubuntu), it might happen t…

>Nowadays, I want to go whatever store (physical or online) and just take what I want to buy.

Look, I understand you that purchasing a Linux laptop with the same certainty of polish that a MacBook has is just problematic. But:

That honestly sounds like a personal problem. And quite a problematic one at that. Do you go into a grocery store and grab the most flashy looking product too? I would hope that you have read up a little bit about nutrition and can take the 5 seconds of your time to see that Flashy Box consists of 90% sugar.

And if a quick Google search of the suggested "model + Linux" is too much time for you whenever you spend $1000+, then how do you find the time to type out this comment?

You merely pointed out one small reason for why you find yourself getting a fully compatible Linux laptop problematic. Your time argument is applicable on the wider issue of not knowing, which you hinted at with your Asus experience.

See: there are a whole lot of things a newcomer doesn't know when they want to get a Linux laptop.

1. They have to know that they have to know beforehand how compatible the laptop is.

2. They have to know how to know how to install additional drivers.

3. They have to know how to revert or otherwise (guess what: I don't know) in case of a similar Wi-Fi driver problem you experienced.

4. They have to know that, in order to get a competitive battery life on the current LTS Ubuntu and Fedora 25, they have to use the terminal to install an additional package (TLP, I didn't know that without it battery life is quite miserable).

5. And this is the summary and the stresser: I don't know what else they, and I, don't know.

Not knowing the things you don't know, that's what you - at least I - don't have time for.

The Chromebooks, those look nice. Linux, without the hassle. I like those. They pass the parent gift test, because it seems like those are the only ones you can just give a family member and never hear about again. No driver issues, no TLP to know to install. And they're so fast! You open the lid and it's ready to go! Why doesn't a distribution pick up Chromium OS and GNU it up, or take the best pieces of it?

As a hardware side note, it appears to be that you sort of get what you pay for. If you want something that runs the seemingly workstation focused Fedora distribution, you probably want a "business" laptop (Lenovo ThinkPad, Dell Precision, HP Elitebook). Ubuntu is more lenient when you tick the 3rd party box during installation, which means most laptops worth their salt appear to work, think $1000+ (the non dev XPS, the ZenBook, VAIO). But don't quote me on that.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#263

Post by [deleted] »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #54

Is there a common high-level scripting tool for Gnome, like AppleScript? For me it's all about the APIs. When I want to do something like: tell application "iTunes" to return every track whose genre is "Rock" and rating > 3 then I don't want to mess around with API documentation for 10 hours and trying lots of different music managers, then importing my large library, just to lose all the tags. I expect similar APIs…

[deleted]

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#264

Post by drvdevd »

pjmlp wrote: post #228
kriro wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree with the sentiment that the solution is "another closed-source unix/linux-based operating system that throws away X.org and its attempted modern replacements, that can directly compete with OS X" We don't need more closed, we need more open. What we need is massive rewards for open hardware via customer money. As long as wireless cards and graphics cards are closed by default and drivers are BLOBe…

No, GNU/Linux needs less fragmentation. It needs a full OS stack, from the kernel to the UI toolkit, that is guaranteed to be the same, across all distributions. Where are the Mac OS X frameworks on GNU/Linux? Nowhere, because each distribution might be using a total different way to play sounds, music, doing SIMD, process images, accessing databases, UI toolkit ....

This has actually always been one of the major benefits of FreeBSD (and other BSDs too).

I consider it an accident of history that Linux won out. We (devs, sysadmins, users) chose this fragmentation for some reason I still don't understand.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#265

Post by ldev »

Sean1708 wrote: post #260
ldev wrote: post #252

Tried to switch to Linux like a month ago, main gripes: 1) Typing sudo before everything. Entering your password everytime OS farts. Geez. Even installing nodejs required to type sudo, meanwhile on macOS - brew install node. Also Ubuntu has outdated packages (nodejs version in their "up do date" repository starts with a zero, need to hunt down ppas, I mean at this point package repository loses it's point, because it…

It might be worth giving ApricityOS[0] a try next time you fancy delving into Linux, I've a lot of good things from ex-Mac users who switched to it. [0]: https://apricityos.com/

Thanks. I try out Linux every year and it's getting better, I mean Linux gets 95% of things right (if not right - atleast you can live with it), but devil's in the details and those remaining little 5% really piss me off. Like xfce - program can change it's state or w/e to busy for 50 ms and you get the loading spinner near your cursor for 50 ms. So cursor just "blinks" with loading spinner. Sometimes repeatedly.

Somehow never noticed that on macOS - either applications are designed better and only known long tasks change the cursor, or there's a system wide control - show spinner near cursor only if app was in busy state for 500 ms or something.

This year tried out Ubuntu, elementaryOS, Manjaro and Solus. Well, Solus on boot on my system had a black screen, and when booted in VirtualBox on Windows - black screen but atleast network notification showed that I'm connected to the internet, after I dismissed the notification - black screen again.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#266

Post by simula67 »

ldev wrote: post #252

Tried to switch to Linux like a month ago, main gripes: 1) Typing sudo before everything. Entering your password everytime OS farts. Geez. Even installing nodejs required to type sudo, meanwhile on macOS - brew install node. Also Ubuntu has outdated packages (nodejs version in their "up do date" repository starts with a zero, need to hunt down ppas, I mean at this point package repository loses it's point, because it…

> Entering your password everytime OS farts

You can add the NOPASSWD option to your sudoers file. Something like this :

ldev ALL=(ALL:ALL)NOPASSWD: ALL

to /etc/sudoers

> Even installing nodejs required to type sudo

You can alias 'apt-get' to 'sudo apt-get'. No more forgetting to type sudo

Your larger point about Linux usability is valid. There is a lack of the attention to detail with Linux, probably because of the dearth of resources since people furiously refuse to monetize the ecosystem

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#267

Post by kagamine »

pjmlp wrote: post #218
sk1pper wrote: post #31

IMO if money isn't an object, OS X is a better call when it comes to laptops. If money is tight, going for a Linux box is almost as good. Linux on desktops - as in, not a laptop - has worked pretty much flawlessly for me for >10 years. Not much else to say there. If desktop or server, this shouldn't be a discussion. As far as laptops go, I've just had better experiences with macbooks. Linux on a laptop is still 100%…

> Linux on a laptop is still 100% usable and gets you everything you need. Unless one is into proper UI/UX design experiences, game and graphics programming specially with multi-GPU and all those nice buttons on the laptop.

There are so many desktop environs for Linux, some mimic OS X, some Windows (XP, 7, 8/10), some unique that if you can't find a UX experience on Linux that is acceptable then the problem isn't Linux, but it might be you!

Game and graphics programming - fair point.

Nice buttons, assuming you mean that row of lights and so on that laptop designers seem to love, always just work for me. Volume, wi-fi, etc work. What doesn't work is the "open a calculator" type button, but I could fix that with a bit of customizing key bindings. As it's so easy to open the "everything finder" in the DE I use ( Moshka/E17) it is easier than reaching for those off-keyboard buttons.

Maybe you need to distro hop a bit more?!

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#268

Post by luca_ing »

developer2 wrote: post #104
timtadh wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux laptops: buy pre-installed. If you want linux and you want to be sure everything is functional, AND you don't want to devote lots of time to a "project" buy a pre-install. Dell Developer Edition laptops (XPS 13, 15) make great laptops. I hear good things about system 76 and purism as well. Save time. Support having good laptops and good drivers. Buy pre-installed. Paying the "windows tax" and installing a Linux…

>> Linux laptops: buy pre-installed. The fact that hardware - though much improved in the past 15 years - is still a crapshoot on Linux, particularly when it comes to laptop hardware, is so frustrating. Windows will work on practically any combination of hardware. OS X will work on any hardware it is permitted to operate on. Linux is the only consortium of operating systems that still suffer from the inability to "ju…

> The fact that hardware - though much improved in the past 15 years - is still a crapshoot on Linux, particularly when it comes to laptop hardware, is so frustrating.

Anecdata: I've only ever had good luck with my laptops. All bought without OS (other than a make-believe FreeDOS installation).

Granted, I pondered a while which laptop to buy -- but I would do that in any case.

My personal experience is that it's surprisingly easy to get it right nowadays.

In fact I distinctly remember being baffled at how hard it was to install a particular driver -- only to discover that the system balked correctly: the driver didn't need to be installed, the device had been working all along, out of the box. I was banging my head against non-existing walls; these turned out to be harder than existing walls ;-)

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#269

Post by pawadu »

pjmlp wrote: post #222
timtadh wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux laptops: buy pre-installed. If you want linux and you want to be sure everything is functional, AND you don't want to devote lots of time to a "project" buy a pre-install. Dell Developer Edition laptops (XPS 13, 15) make great laptops. I hear good things about system 76 and purism as well. Save time. Support having good laptops and good drivers. Buy pre-installed. Paying the "windows tax" and installing a Linux…

I bought an Asus 1215B netbook that came with GNU/Linux pre-installed (Ubuntu), sold via Amazon a couple of years ago. Guess what, the Ubuntu devs decided they should replace the Broadcom closed source WiFi drivers by the half-working open source ones, so during six months I didn't had a working wireless connection. Asus could not support us, and Ubuntu forums were full of hacking the old drivers into the updated one…

I believe Ubuntu allows you to choose between closed source drivers from the vendor and open source ones.

It even asks you during install. I think it's on the very first page they show you.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#270

Post by naibafo »

StavrosK wrote: post #138
rhodysurf wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For personal use its the most up to date and because its rolling release i never have to actually upgrade or wait for releases. Also newer kernels for newer hardware.

Doesn't that break things too often? I always run across at least one breaking change on each new Ubuntu version, and I'd imagine this happens much more often with a rollling release OS, is that not the case? Also, how is packaging? With Ubuntu, someone always has a PPA for everything.

The thing with the rolling release is, that you get a few small updates each day/week, so if something breaks, you generally know where, which makes it easier to pinpoint the problem and fix it, then after a full distro upgrade.

However, in the one year I have been using Arch as my main distro, I had only two small breakages.

The first was a recent upgrade of openvpn, which required you to move some folder from one place to the other. however this was a known breaking change, so it was announced on the Arch-announce mailing list. :)

The second happened this weekend. I had been using the infinality-font-bundle, which provides a patched fonts set that is beautifully rendered. However it seems that the developer hadn't been keeping up with the new versions of fontconfig and the had been some new options added, and after an update gdk-bixbuf2 needed one of them to function. (which resultet in missing icons) This was fixed after 5 minutes of googleing.

So not something very dramatic.

Packaging:

The package manager is pacman and the standard repos already have a lot of software. And then there is the AUR, where everybody can upload build-scripts for stuff that is not in the official repositories. Most of the time they work great, there hasn't been any software at all that I had to download from a browser.

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