From OS X to Ubuntu • Hacker News Board

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#211

Post by kriro » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 7:18 AM UTC

developer2 wrote: post #104

timtadh wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux laptops: buy pre-installed. If you want linux and you want to be sure everything is functional, AND you don't want to devote lots of time to a "project" buy a pre-install. Dell Developer Edition laptops (XPS 13, 15) make great laptops. I hear good things about system 76 and purism as well. Save time. Support having good laptops and good drivers. Buy pre-installed. Paying the "windows tax" and installing a Linux…

>> Linux laptops: buy pre-installed. The fact that hardware - though much improved in the past 15 years - is still a crapshoot on Linux, particularly when it comes to laptop hardware, is so frustrating. Windows will work on practically any combination of hardware. OS X will work on any hardware it is permitted to operate on. Linux is the only consortium of operating systems that still suffer from the inability to "ju…

I strongly disagree with the sentiment that the solution is "another closed-source unix/linux-based operating system that throws away X.org and its attempted modern replacements, that can directly compete with OS X"

We don't need more closed, we need more open. What we need is massive rewards for open hardware via customer money. As long as wireless cards and graphics cards are closed by default and drivers are BLOBed up it's a losing battle by default. I do believe there's an opening to mini-disrupt Apples hardware (specifically laptop) sales by providing the "Apple experience" of bundling up everything in a neat package with strong branding. Focus very hard on the professional niche, ignore everything else. The key is finding hardware vendors that will play ball (and investors that are willing to take the boring low margin hardware risk). Linux has 30-40% of Apple's market share.

I suppose a bigish player like Dell could also work. I had the feeling their Linux line was more of an afterthought but the current release note of an extended Linux line looks pretty great. I'm not sure about their marketing and approach it isn't focused enough (just sell it as the ultimate developer box imo) but that news had me very excited. Good job Dell :)

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#212

Post by kbp » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 7:31 AM UTC

developer2 wrote: post #104

timtadh wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux laptops: buy pre-installed. If you want linux and you want to be sure everything is functional, AND you don't want to devote lots of time to a "project" buy a pre-install. Dell Developer Edition laptops (XPS 13, 15) make great laptops. I hear good things about system 76 and purism as well. Save time. Support having good laptops and good drivers. Buy pre-installed. Paying the "windows tax" and installing a Linux…

>> Linux laptops: buy pre-installed. The fact that hardware - though much improved in the past 15 years - is still a crapshoot on Linux, particularly when it comes to laptop hardware, is so frustrating. Windows will work on practically any combination of hardware. OS X will work on any hardware it is permitted to operate on. Linux is the only consortium of operating systems that still suffer from the inability to "ju…

> OS X will work on any hardware it is permitted to operate on.

OS X is only "permitted to operate" on computers designed for it, though. Linux doesn't have issues running on models where the manufacturer actually supports Linux.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#213

Post by stymaar » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 7:40 AM UTC

peller wrote: post #117

developer2 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Linux laptops: buy pre-installed. The fact that hardware - though much improved in the past 15 years - is still a crapshoot on Linux, particularly when it comes to laptop hardware, is so frustrating. Windows will work on practically any combination of hardware. OS X will work on any hardware it is permitted to operate on. Linux is the only consortium of operating systems that still suffer from the inability to "ju…

> If the laptop comes with Ubuntu pre-installed, what are the odds I can replace it with CentOS or Arch? Very high. For the most part, drivers on Linux are determined by the kernel version[0]. Arch typically runs a pretty new kernel, so anything that Ubuntu supports, will most likely be fine. (That applies to pretty much all desktop-oriented distros.) CentOS is server-oriented, and typically runs a pretty old kernel,…

A notable exception to this rule are Nvidia Drivers, which are close-source. When switching from the initial distribution to the newer one, you'll fall back to the free Nouveau driver and need to reinstall the NVIDIA zone by yourself.

It's not too difficult but can be surprising if you're not expecting it because your thought everything was in the kernel like I did.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#214

Post by Keats » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 7:44 AM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #138

rhodysurf wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For personal use its the most up to date and because its rolling release i never have to actually upgrade or wait for releases. Also newer kernels for newer hardware.

Doesn't that break things too often? I always run across at least one breaking change on each new Ubuntu version, and I'd imagine this happens much more often with a rollling release OS, is that not the case? Also, how is packaging? With Ubuntu, someone always has a PPA for everything.

I've been using Arch for ~2 years now and haven't had anything break, I do a pacman -Syu (updates everything) every week or so.

Arch has AUR (http://aur.archlinux.org/) which has probably way more things than PPA have

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#215

Post by moonman272 » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 7:45 AM UTC

wyldfire wrote: post #76

lobster_johnson wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other manufacturers also haven't figured out how to organize their models. As far as I can tell, Dell has just a handful of models (XPS, Precision etc.), but if you go and look at the XPS 15, for example, it's a grid of dozens of SKUs with various specs instead of just a single page with customization options. It's not even a matrix -- with models varying by CPU and RAM and disk and such, you'd expect that at lea…

I've never been a product manager but IMO it probably goes something like this: "The framistan line is successful but I hear from our customers that we should have some options that add [x] and drop [y], while having support for more [z]." "We need to create a new line, a totally separate brand from framistan that has way more [x], [y] but no [z] at all. The competition has entered this space and there is clearly a m…

the part you missed is that the money tree didn't magically appear and allow them to do that. Apple's ability to have discipline and know when to say no, sticking to the specific markets they know they can make large margins in is what created and feeds the money tree. Why make 40 lines in every variation at razor thin profits, when you can make one line at huge margins? Not sticking to that model is what's getting apple in trouble, even if every tech comment whines about how apple has done everything wrong since forever.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#216

Post by yeukhon » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 7:56 AM UTC

ePierre wrote: post #143

timtadh wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux laptops: buy pre-installed. If you want linux and you want to be sure everything is functional, AND you don't want to devote lots of time to a "project" buy a pre-install. Dell Developer Edition laptops (XPS 13, 15) make great laptops. I hear good things about system 76 and purism as well. Save time. Support having good laptops and good drivers. Buy pre-installed. Paying the "windows tax" and installing a Linux…

> Save time. Support having good laptops and good drivers. Buy pre-installed. Paying the "windows tax" and installing a Linux on a windows laptop isn't just more work, it is bad for the ecosystem. I wish I could. Unfortunately, I live in a country (Taiwan) where no one knows about Linux. It's impossible to buy a pre-installed Linux laptop here. You know the most ironic part? My job here is to certify hardware (includ…

@ePierre:

> I wish I could. Unfortunately, I live in a country (Taiwan) where no one knows about Linux. It's impossible to buy a pre-installed Linux laptop here.

It's odd because Taiwan has a very strong IT root, and the Open Source community there is strong. It's true regular PC users don't use Linux, so are the regular PC users in America. Even government supports open source softwares.

[1]: https://www.mindmeister.com/303031964/open-source-community-...

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#217

Post by deadbunny » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 7:58 AM UTC

leesalminen wrote: post #69

timtadh wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux laptops: buy pre-installed. If you want linux and you want to be sure everything is functional, AND you don't want to devote lots of time to a "project" buy a pre-install. Dell Developer Edition laptops (XPS 13, 15) make great laptops. I hear good things about system 76 and purism as well. Save time. Support having good laptops and good drivers. Buy pre-installed. Paying the "windows tax" and installing a Linux…

Can anyone point me towards the new Dell XPS 15 Developer Edition (does it exist)? I'm able to find the Windows version [0], as well as the XPS 13 Developer Edition [1], but no XPS 15 Developer edition. I just want my 15 inches. I did 13 for years and the pain still haunts me. [0] http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-15-9560-laptop/pd [1] http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/555/campaigns/xps-linux-lapt...

I use the XPS 15 (2015) and I run Linux with zero problems. While not marketed as a Linux machine I've had zero issues getting 16.04 server (no unity) working.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#218

Post by pjmlp » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 7:59 AM UTC

sk1pper wrote: post #31

IMO if money isn't an object, OS X is a better call when it comes to laptops. If money is tight, going for a Linux box is almost as good. Linux on desktops - as in, not a laptop - has worked pretty much flawlessly for me for >10 years. Not much else to say there. If desktop or server, this shouldn't be a discussion. As far as laptops go, I've just had better experiences with macbooks. Linux on a laptop is still 100%…

> Linux on a laptop is still 100% usable and gets you everything you need.

Unless one is into proper UI/UX design experiences, game and graphics programming specially with multi-GPU and all those nice buttons on the laptop.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#219

Post by trm42 » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 8:01 AM UTC

desireco42 wrote: post #33

Most important part here, and what is mostly stopping me from jumping ship is photography. Darktable is probably fantastic software, however there is number of great plugins for Lightroom that I would miss dearly.

Used Linux before really started photography hobby. After a while of fumbling with additional WinXP desktop for Lightroom 1-3, decided to start using my work Macbook for photography as well and it has made my life a lot easier. One reason being that keeping laptops working with Linux is PITA.

Lightroom is amazing piece of software for its purpose, but the vendor lock-in of 9 years of raws stored and edited() with Lightroom means I'll need some LR machine unless I want to create my photo library again. On the other hand I haven't seen other as well streamlined photography workflow + raw application.

Of course I can export the good photos as JPEGs/Tiffs out of LR but then I'll miss the non-destructive history of edits and have to rework metadata etc...

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#220

Post by colemickens » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 8:03 AM UTC

Theodores wrote: post #208

colemickens wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone ever try to install Windows from scratch on these new laptops? They have far more problems than Linux out of the box - no Wifi drivers, no correct display driver so everythings stuck at 1024x768. No touchpad driver on one of them. Meanwhile, I've installed Arch and NixOS on a Chromebook Pixel 2013, Chromebook Pixel 2015, Lenovo X1 Carbon and a 2015 Macbook Pro in the last 18 months. Never had a significan…

I think you are onto something with running linux on a Chromebook. For years I have struggled with deaf wi-fi on laptops running Ubuntu, I spend half my evenings reconnecting the wifi on a Lenovo laptop, and that is with an external wifi dongle as there is no chance of getting the internal wifi working. I am writing this on a Chromebook Pixel 2013 variant, the wifi on this machine and every other Chromebook I have us…

Yes! We are on the same page completely!

The new $500 Samsung with HiDPI screen? I do all of my development remotely like you, but on an Azure VM. I just want a nice screen to look at when I typing into vim via mosh. At $500, I'm really hopeful that there will be a steady stream of Linux-capable, HiDPI, USB-C enabled hardware for the forseeable future. I already own three chargers that will charge it.

Yes, I love Chromebooks and I'm not that into Chrome OS. Thank you Google!