Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

blogs.wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 387 posts

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#231

Post by shas3 »

tw04 wrote: post #187
shas3 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"if the salary isn't really high..." How high? Why is 100k a magic number? 100k isn't even a big deal in SF or NYC. While a high skilled scientist working in say, Corning, NY at Corning Corp or Niskayuna, NY at GE's research labs, 100k enables a king's life. How would you adjust for experience? Perhaps a company sees immense potential and cultural fit in an employee and wants to groom them for future roles? The wages…

> Perhaps a company sees immense potential and cultural fit in an employee and wants to groom them for future roles? As previously stated, the intention of H1B is for ALREADY SKILLED workers in short supply. If they want to groom someone, they should be hiring a US citizen, not going to the H1B pool to find a low-cost foreign alternative.

Eh? Nothing precludes grooming skilled workers! Also, obviously, new hires can be highly skilled. Someone already skilled may fit better in one company than another, etc. etc.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#232

Post by sjg007 »

shas3 wrote: post #24

I think there's a big misconception here on this thread, thanks to the poorly written WSJ blog post. Rep. Issa's bill only applies to companies which have more than 15% of their workforce of 50 or more on visas. That number is calibrated to affect outsourcing companies like Infosys, TCS, HCL, etc. So, while it's fun to jump on the "foreigners shouldn't work in America" bandwagon on this thread, this bill is not what…

The mining safety individual could qualify under an O visa or even have their own consulting company....

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#233

Post by ma2rten »

vostok wrote: post #225
ma2rten wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is goes back to a more philosophical question. Is it fair that some get payed more than others even though they are equally skilled or maybe even contribute more to society? How do you even define being skilled? Politicians only want to allow high skilled immigration, since low skilled immigration takes away jobs or at least constituents seem to think so. For the purpose of a green card application you actually…

> If you define it based on salary you exclude people who are skilled but in locations, industries or professions that don't pay well, say barbers or teachers as an extreme example. Is that fair? I don't know. Shouldn't this be first class evidence that there is no shortage of barbers or teachers? If there were a shortage then you would pay them more.

The same could be said for anyone who is payed less than 100k, right?

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#234

Post by EduardoBautista »

sjg007 wrote: post #232
shas3 wrote: post #24

I think there's a big misconception here on this thread, thanks to the poorly written WSJ blog post. Rep. Issa's bill only applies to companies which have more than 15% of their workforce of 50 or more on visas. That number is calibrated to affect outsourcing companies like Infosys, TCS, HCL, etc. So, while it's fun to jump on the "foreigners shouldn't work in America" bandwagon on this thread, this bill is not what…

The mining safety individual could qualify under an O visa or even have their own consulting company....

Starting a consulting company won't get you a green card. At best you will have an infinitely renewable work permit if you qualify for the E2 visa.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#235

Post by vostok »

ma2rten wrote: post #233
vostok wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you define it based on salary you exclude people who are skilled but in locations, industries or professions that don't pay well, say barbers or teachers as an extreme example. Is that fair? I don't know. Shouldn't this be first class evidence that there is no shortage of barbers or teachers? If there were a shortage then you would pay them more.

The same could be said for anyone who is payed less than 100k, right?

Yes. There is no shortage of anyone who is paid under $100k.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#236

Post by elevenfist »

vostok wrote: post #206
shas3 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"if the salary isn't really high..." How high? Why is 100k a magic number? 100k isn't even a big deal in SF or NYC. While a high skilled scientist working in say, Corning, NY at Corning Corp or Niskayuna, NY at GE's research labs, 100k enables a king's life. How would you adjust for experience? Perhaps a company sees immense potential and cultural fit in an employee and wants to groom them for future roles? The wages…

> How high? Why is 100k a magic number? 100k isn't even a big deal in SF or NYC. While a high skilled scientist working in say, Corning, NY at Corning Corp or Niskayuna, NY at GE's research labs, 100k enables a king's life. Highly skilled workers do not receive cost of living adjustments. I've been recruited for jobs in low cost of living and high cost of living areas. The pay is the same in both when there is a true…

> Highly skilled workers do not receive cost of living adjustments. I've been recruited for jobs in low cost of living and high cost of living areas. The pay is the same in both when there is a true shortage of labor.

Policy cannot be determined by anecdotes.

> Company A wants to pay Engineer X $500k and Company B wants to pay Engineer Y $50k then clearly Company A has a greater need.

Hardly a forgone conclusion, there are numerous confounding factors. For example company B might not have the resources/revenue to outbid company A.

Another counterexample of many for why an auction system is terrible: employee y could be a research scientist in industry contributing to the foundation of a new industry. An auction system would give their visa to a fullstack developer hired by a startup flush with funding.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#237

Post by tw04 »

shas3 wrote: post #231
tw04 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps a company sees immense potential and cultural fit in an employee and wants to groom them for future roles? As previously stated, the intention of H1B is for ALREADY SKILLED workers in short supply. If they want to groom someone, they should be hiring a US citizen, not going to the H1B pool to find a low-cost foreign alternative.

Eh? Nothing precludes grooming skilled workers! Also, obviously, new hires can be highly skilled. Someone already skilled may fit better in one company than another, etc. etc.

So what exactly is the mythical groomed position that you envision that both can't be filled by an American worker and requires an extremely skilled H1B visa worker?

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#238

Post by vostok »

elevenfist wrote: post #236
vostok wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How high? Why is 100k a magic number? 100k isn't even a big deal in SF or NYC. While a high skilled scientist working in say, Corning, NY at Corning Corp or Niskayuna, NY at GE's research labs, 100k enables a king's life. Highly skilled workers do not receive cost of living adjustments. I've been recruited for jobs in low cost of living and high cost of living areas. The pay is the same in both when there is a true…

> Highly skilled workers do not receive cost of living adjustments. I've been recruited for jobs in low cost of living and high cost of living areas. The pay is the same in both when there is a true shortage of labor. Policy cannot be determined by anecdotes. > Company A wants to pay Engineer X $500k and Company B wants to pay Engineer Y $50k then clearly Company A has a greater need. Hardly a forgone conclusion, the…

> For example company B might not have the resources/revenue to outbid company A.

If Company B doesn't have the resources to outbid Company A then we've decided, as a society, that whatever Company A is doing is more important that what Company B is doing.

> Another counterexample of many for why an auction system is terrible: employee y could be a research scientist in industry contributing to the foundation of a new industry. An auction system would give their visa to a fullstack developer hired by a startup flush with funding.

That sounds like a problem with the way that we fund science and not a problem with immigration.

Also, anecdotally, there is no shortage of scientists. I know plenty of people who had to go into tech or finance because they couldn't find science jobs.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#239

Post by BurningFrog »

chrisper wrote: post #200
BurningFrog wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once H1B lose his job, he and his family has to leave the country in 15 days This is not true in practice. There is a rule saying that, but it has never been enforced. As long as you don't leave the country, you'll have no problem looking for a new job for however long that takes. At least that's what my immigration lawyer told me many years ago.

Would you really be able to sleep well every night on the premise "it's okay, it hasn't been enforced yet " if you are unemployed on an H1B? I know I would not be able to. In fact, it's not something you can really rely on and make part of your plans. All you need is getting caught by some mad traffic cop and in court it turns out you are out of status and you will be deported.

> Would you really be able to sleep well every night on the premise "it's okay, it hasn't been enforced yet" if you are unemployed on an H1B?

I actually have done that.

ICE is very slow to deport even the categories they actually prioritize. Millions keep living here for decades. They're not monitoring traffic court for unemployed engineers.

Sure, anything can happen, but the risk of dying in traffic or a crime is far more real than this.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#240

Post by nathanvanfleet »

shas3 wrote: post #51
diogenescynic wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds awesome considering those body shops use up most of the H-1B quota and significantly underpay their employees compared to industry wages. For example, somewhere between 47% and 85% of H-1Bs are being significantly underpaid compared to their peers, evidence that the program is not being used to bring over workers with "specialized knowledge" as they claim--but to drive down wages. It makes sense though, when y…

I'm not sure about the bidding war. I've been in situations where companies are looking for people with specific skills (e.g. working with specific microbiology techniques) but would never be able to outbid what Facebook or someone in Bay Area would pay for generalist skills in another field. There is nowhere close to 100% elasticity in wages to make an auction system fair. Also, this would handicap companies in low-…

Really glad for your comment. I was agreeing with him until you made such a concise argument for how that makes no sense.
Post reply on HN