H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules • Hacker News Board

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#201

Post by deepGem » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 2:43 AM UTC

diogenescynic wrote: post #38

shas3 wrote: post #24

I think there's a big misconception here on this thread, thanks to the poorly written WSJ blog post. Rep. Issa's bill only applies to companies which have more than 15% of their workforce of 50 or more on visas. That number is calibrated to affect outsourcing companies like Infosys, TCS, HCL, etc. So, while it's fun to jump on the "foreigners shouldn't work in America" bandwagon on this thread, this bill is not what…

Sounds awesome considering those body shops use up most of the H-1B quota and significantly underpay their employees compared to industry wages. For example, somewhere between 47% and 85% of H-1Bs are being significantly underpaid compared to their peers, evidence that the program is not being used to bring over workers with "specialized knowledge" as they claim--but to drive down wages. It makes sense though, when y…

I think a generic rhetoric that Indian outsourcing companies just drive down wages is plain wrong. Most of the contracts that these guys bag are long term maintenance type contracts. The companies that are awarding these contracts are doing so mostly because they are stuck with legacy software that are hard to replace. The replacements costs are typically higher than the 5 year maintenance costs. It's no wonder that the people who are employed for these type of roles are paid less. In other words, the market determines the price. Infosys and the like are just optimising for profitability, like any other public company.

Given how competitive the market for talent is, H1B employees of these companies are always free to find other jobs. Since they already have a H1B visa, transfers are possible. Agreed not all companies will sponsor a transfer but many do. Even startups. Some lower quality body shops try to enforce some 'bonded contract' but that is illegal and will never fly in labour courts.

So no, the outsourcing companies are not underpaying talented people. They are just paying the correct price determined by the market for that particular aggregated job function.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#202

Post by jasonlotito » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 2:44 AM UTC

dmode wrote: post #68

jinglbox wrote: post #63

This is an attempt by the corrupt Darrel Issa to help H1B fraudsters continue their wage theft. This bill is an attempt to get out in front of any real reform by making it seem unnecessary. A child's trick. The fact is that everyone knows that Silicon Valley corporations like Google, Facebook, and Apple use H1B fraud to suppress (steal) wages. You don't have to be even one ounce xenophobic or racist to think it's wro…

Google, Apple, and Facebook are literally the highest paying companies in the world. If that is an example of "suppressed wages"...

Well, keep in mind Apple, Google, and others were behind a wage fixing scheme[1] that kept salaries lower. And because people see them as the highest paying companies, that negatively impacts everyone's wages in the industry.

So, yes, it is an example of "suppressed wages," and if you think stealing from people is alright, I'm not sure what to say.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#203

Post by winter_blue » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 2:44 AM UTC

badminton1 wrote: post #139

freddyc wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All this arises whenever H1B tries to change the job Yes, getting fired sucks if you're on an H1B but your comment doesn't apply to job changers generally. H1B visas are transferable (with a little paperwork) so an employee looking to move jobs just needs to ensure that they have their ducks lined up and that any required paper work is filed - usually that means lighting a fire under the HR team of the new employer…

They can be transferred, but you are still at risk until the other company gets the receipt from the USCIS which might take up to a couple of months.

Couple of corrections:

1. You can start working for the new employer as soon as the petition has been sent out. For example, as soon as you have a FedEx/UPS tracking number for the petition, you can start the new job (even before receiving a Notice of Receipt).

2. You get a Notice of Receipt (form I-797C) usually in less than a week (and usually in about 3 days), if the petition was mailed in with overnight shipping.

3. Now receiving a Notice of Approval (form I-797A or I-797B) -- i.e. the actual adjudication of the petition, typically takes a couple of months with regular processing, but only 15 business days with premium processing.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#204

Post by chrisper » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 2:47 AM UTC

BhavdeepSethi wrote: post #59

throw345hn wrote: post #42

One of the problems with the highest bidder approach its going to favor senior devs. This is good thing but you also have to look at graduates who have come to the US to study and may not be able to earn that much immediately but are just as likely to earn a lot more in a few years. If the ruling forces them to move them, then it will result in draining the talent.

Students from universities already have an OPT valid for 36 months (12+24), which is sufficient time to move to the highest bidder approach.

It's 12 + 12 if you are stem. Not 12 + 24.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#205

Post by mavelikara » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 2:48 AM UTC

vadym909 wrote: post #144

Why $100K makes sense. Data from 2014 showing how many H1b and the average salary for the top H1b seekers. The legit companies are paying on average >$100K Infosys 32,379 $76,494 Tcs 8,785 $66,113 Wipro 6,733 $69,953 Igate 2,056 $67,168 Cognizan 1,704 $67,506 L & T 4,380 $59,933 Hcl 3,012 $81,376 Tech Mah 2,249 $73,374 Ust Glob 1,549 $73,374 Deloitte 8,028 $85,295 Ibm 5,839 $87,789 Accenture5,099 $70,878 E& Y 2,188 $…

Your data presented with better formatting:

        Infosys	        32,379       $76,494 
        TCS              8,785       $66,113 
        Wipro	         6,733       $69,953 
        IGate            2,056       $67,168 
        Cognizant        1,704       $67,506 
        L & T            4,380       $59,933 
        HCL              3,012       $81,376 
        Tech Mahindra    2,249       $73,374 
        UST Global       1,549       $73,374
                                     
        Deloitte         8,028       $85,295 
        IBM              5,839       $87,789 
        Accenture        5,099       $70,878 
        E & Y            2,188       $88,353 
        NttData          1,156      $100,889
                                    
        Microsft         3,911      $113,408 
        Qualcom	         3,086      $105,169 
        Google	         2,163      $126,565 
        Intel	         1,945      $102,883 
        Oracle           1,773      $113,065 
        Amazon	         1,256      $109,409 
        JP Morgan        1,256      $105,837 
        Apple	         1,038      $130,690

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#206

Post by vostok » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 2:50 AM UTC

shas3 wrote: post #132

geebee wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that I'm sympathetic to employers who want to pay less. Keep in mind, the US takes in well over a million immigrants a year, and has a huge internal workforce. The H1B was created to help employers find critical and highly skilled workers that are in desperately short supply in the US. "Oh, but we can't afford to pay them a lot of money, that's not fair!" isn't the sort of argument that tends to evoke mu…

"if the salary isn't really high..." How high? Why is 100k a magic number? 100k isn't even a big deal in SF or NYC. While a high skilled scientist working in say, Corning, NY at Corning Corp or Niskayuna, NY at GE's research labs, 100k enables a king's life. How would you adjust for experience? Perhaps a company sees immense potential and cultural fit in an employee and wants to groom them for future roles? The wages…

> How high? Why is 100k a magic number? 100k isn't even a big deal in SF or NYC. While a high skilled scientist working in say, Corning, NY at Corning Corp or Niskayuna, NY at GE's research labs, 100k enables a king's life.

Highly skilled workers do not receive cost of living adjustments. I've been recruited for jobs in low cost of living and high cost of living areas. The pay is the same in both when there is a true shortage of labor.

This is why the auction system is great. If Company A wants to pay Engineer X $500k and Company B wants to pay Engineer Y $50k then clearly Company A has a greater need.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#207

Post by winter_blue » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 2:51 AM UTC

yellow_viper wrote: post #165

diogenescynic wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Immigration Attorneys are making a fortune of this broken system Those same law firms hire lobbyists to make sure the system remains complicated and inefficient. Also, all the law firms that service tech companies have almost 100% of the work done by recent college grads for very low pay. Ever wondered why your L-1/H-1/I-140 support letter has so many errors? It's because it was a generic template that some recent c…

Green cards too. My family moved out of America a few months after my dads work had secured us greecards at a total of $350,000 (iirc - for the family of 7). These were voided as we didn't stay in the country long enough to validate them - what a waste.

How did it cost $350,000? That's an insane number.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#208

Post by diogenescynic » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 2:53 AM UTC

deepGem wrote: post #201

diogenescynic wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds awesome considering those body shops use up most of the H-1B quota and significantly underpay their employees compared to industry wages. For example, somewhere between 47% and 85% of H-1Bs are being significantly underpaid compared to their peers, evidence that the program is not being used to bring over workers with "specialized knowledge" as they claim--but to drive down wages. It makes sense though, when y…

I think a generic rhetoric that Indian outsourcing companies just drive down wages is plain wrong. Most of the contracts that these guys bag are long term maintenance type contracts. The companies that are awarding these contracts are doing so mostly because they are stuck with legacy software that are hard to replace. The replacements costs are typically higher than the 5 year maintenance costs. It's no wonder that…

>a generic rhetoric that Indian outsourcing companies just drive down wages is plain wrong

>They are just paying the correct price determined by the market for that particular aggregated job function.

If 47% and 85% of H-1Bs at bodyshops are being significantly underpaid compared to their peers, what is your argument that they aren't driving down wages? If these employees weren't on visas, do you really think they would still all be paid below the market rate?

And even still, why are visas for "specialized knowledge" workers going to what you call "maintenance type contracts" for "legacy software"? There's a huge disconnect between the intent and purpose of the visa programs and their actual use.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#209

Post by anirudh24seven » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 2:54 AM UTC

Does this affect remote working in any manner? I am from India and have considered working remotely in later stages of my career. I have no intentions of leaving India and moving to the US, but I might be applying to organizations within the US.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#210

Post by nsxwolf » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 2:55 AM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #115

I would like to see a requirement for contracting companies to keep at least 51% of their domestic staff as US citizens. It's obscene that businesses are allowed to game the H1B program by staffing through these middlemen. That is not the original intent for these visas. After the Disney fiasco it's clear that the rules for which jobs qualify need to be tightened up. There is no way rank and file IT skills are so spe…

I found the whole Disney affair to be confusing. I thought the H1B rules were written to specifically disallow what they did. I didn't think you were allowed to use H1B labor to replace US citizens who are already employed.