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H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

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Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#191

Post by wyldfire »

diogenescynic wrote: post #38
shas3 wrote: post #24

I think there's a big misconception here on this thread, thanks to the poorly written WSJ blog post. Rep. Issa's bill only applies to companies which have more than 15% of their workforce of 50 or more on visas. That number is calibrated to affect outsourcing companies like Infosys, TCS, HCL, etc. So, while it's fun to jump on the "foreigners shouldn't work in America" bandwagon on this thread, this bill is not what…

Sounds awesome considering those body shops use up most of the H-1B quota and significantly underpay their employees compared to industry wages. For example, somewhere between 47% and 85% of H-1Bs are being significantly underpaid compared to their peers, evidence that the program is not being used to bring over workers with "specialized knowledge" as they claim--but to drive down wages. It makes sense though, when y…

> the program is not being used to bring over workers with "specialized knowledge" as they claim--but to drive down wages.

While that might or might not be the intent, it seems like a pretty likely effect, right? Just based on the additional supply alone?

I wonder about the effect of cutting back H1-B visas too much. If it made salaries rise significantly, wouldn't it upset the social hierarchy of these businesses? Software devs being so scarce that they're getting paid more than executives, e.g.? Seems like working with more foreign software firms is almost a given if costs skyrocket like that.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#192

Post by j_koreth »

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #117
tn13 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're talking about empowering corporations to bestow US live and work rights on an employee of their choosing, in an end-run around normal immigration procedures. What is wrong with that ? Honestly I dont see why getting Indian and Chinese workers as cheap labor is bad either. Whatever regulations drove out manufacturing sector from USA mgiht drive out tech from USA too.

Manufacturing didn't really leave the US, the jobs are just done by robots.

H1-B workers are generally mostly used as programmers and brought in by large tech companies to use instead of native labor. I'm not really sure what manufacturing has got to do with this unless programming was made obsolete by robots already.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#193

Post by arjie »

suryacom wrote: post #37
tn13 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any time I change my job, green card process has to be restarted from square one..more cash to attorneys. That is not true. Visa can be transferred in mere 15 days. Why dont you change jobs?

Visa can be transferred. But, Green Card process has to be restarted from the square one; that is +10k for attorney.

Yeah, but it's not like the employee is paying for the green card. I have loads of friends on H-1Bs (I'm on one as well) and no one I know has paid for the green card application. That's on the employer and they know what they're getting into when they hire a foreigner.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#194

Post by smm2000 »

joering2 wrote: post #81
suryacom wrote: post #27

On one talks about the actual issue with the H1B. I'm a H1B holder from India, living and working in USA for past 10 years. The actual incentive for companies is that, an H1B holder from India has less rights, they cannot change job or even travel freely outside USA (for decades). That gives the employers full control of the employee. Any guess why companies only recruit from India and China? Because, the country bas…

Oh, and while you're on it.. don't lose that Green Card! It costs about $27 in Cali to get a dup of your lost DL [1]; while your Green Card replacement costs... $450! [2] [1] http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/replace-license.php [2] https://www.bridge.us/articles/misplace-green-card/ Its very obvious USCIS prays on the fact that most immigrants do not make enough money to actually hire (expensive) lawyer and take them…

If you are poor, you can ask USCIS to waive the replacement fee - agency is actually quite accommodating. Obviously it won't work for 99.99% software engineer who actually has money to pay.

Also suing for $450 is ridiculous whether you have money or not. It is a cost of average traffic ticket and most people just pay it without involving any lawyer.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#195

Post by SilasX »

shas3 wrote: post #132
geebee wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that I'm sympathetic to employers who want to pay less. Keep in mind, the US takes in well over a million immigrants a year, and has a huge internal workforce. The H1B was created to help employers find critical and highly skilled workers that are in desperately short supply in the US. "Oh, but we can't afford to pay them a lot of money, that's not fair!" isn't the sort of argument that tends to evoke mu…

"if the salary isn't really high..." How high? Why is 100k a magic number? 100k isn't even a big deal in SF or NYC. While a high skilled scientist working in say, Corning, NY at Corning Corp or Niskayuna, NY at GE's research labs, 100k enables a king's life. How would you adjust for experience? Perhaps a company sees immense potential and cultural fit in an employee and wants to groom them for future roles? The wages…

You shouldn't adjust for cost of living; remember, the causality flows the other way. SV and the coasts have a higher cost of living because they've found a more value-generating use of the labor that allows workers to bid up prices. [1] If the system favors them, that seems like it's working properly.

Caterpillar shouldn't pay hedge fund wages; they should pay high-for-the-area wages to draw Americans out there rather than use up competitive slots reserved for the most economically valued immigrants.

[1] Of course, there are land use restrictions etc.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#197

Post by mavelikara »

suryacom wrote: post #27

On one talks about the actual issue with the H1B. I'm a H1B holder from India, living and working in USA for past 10 years. The actual incentive for companies is that, an H1B holder from India has less rights, they cannot change job or even travel freely outside USA (for decades). That gives the employers full control of the employee. Any guess why companies only recruit from India and China? Because, the country bas…

https://fromthelandofgandhifilm.com/ is a great documentary about the hardships faced by people on H-1B from India or China waiting for their Green Cards.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#198

Post by ma2rten »

shas3 wrote: post #132
geebee wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that I'm sympathetic to employers who want to pay less. Keep in mind, the US takes in well over a million immigrants a year, and has a huge internal workforce. The H1B was created to help employers find critical and highly skilled workers that are in desperately short supply in the US. "Oh, but we can't afford to pay them a lot of money, that's not fair!" isn't the sort of argument that tends to evoke mu…

"if the salary isn't really high..." How high? Why is 100k a magic number? 100k isn't even a big deal in SF or NYC. While a high skilled scientist working in say, Corning, NY at Corning Corp or Niskayuna, NY at GE's research labs, 100k enables a king's life. How would you adjust for experience? Perhaps a company sees immense potential and cultural fit in an employee and wants to groom them for future roles? The wages…

This is goes back to a more philosophical question. Is it fair that some get payed more than others even though they are equally skilled or maybe even contribute more to society? How do you even define being skilled?

Politicians only want to allow high skilled immigration, since low skilled immigration takes away jobs or at least constituents seem to think so.

For the purpose of a green card application you actually have to show that you tried to recruit a US person for the position, but that system is slow and easily gamed as well: You just make requirements up that only one person in the world can fulfill, the person you are trying to hire.

If you define it based on salary you exclude people who are skilled but in locations, industries or professions that don't pay well, say barbers or teachers as an extreme example. Is that fair? I don't know.

Also, the system kind of takes a simplistic view that there are X number of jobs and Y number of people who are qualified to do that job. It doesn't consider that some people are better at the job than other and that job requirements can be fluid.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#199

Post by Nrsolis »

ryandrake wrote: post #93
whyileft wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is an acute shortage of capable, knowledgeable workers trained in the skills that industry needs. Just like there is an acute shortage of NFL Quarterbacks that are capable of leading a team to a super bowl championship. The problem with this skills gap myth is that we are looking for people who are better than most of their peers in the industry. The will always be a shortage of top 10% performers in the indu…

There's also, by definition, a shortage of talent willing to work for far-below-market wages. It's in employers' best interest to address this "shortage".

Exactly. They found a way to get around the problem of paying market wages by changing the market.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#200

Post by chrisper »

BurningFrog wrote: post #177
suryacom wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you mean by you are a risk taker? You have no idea what you are comparing here. Will you risk your family getting deported due to a clerical error? Once H1B lose his job, he and his family has to leave the country in 15 days. Sell his house, pull kids out from school, etc. All this arises whenever H1B tries to change the job.

> Once H1B lose his job, he and his family has to leave the country in 15 days This is not true in practice. There is a rule saying that, but it has never been enforced. As long as you don't leave the country, you'll have no problem looking for a new job for however long that takes. At least that's what my immigration lawyer told me many years ago.

Would you really be able to sleep well every night on the premise "it's okay, it hasn't been enforced yet" if you are unemployed on an H1B? I know I would not be able to. In fact, it's not something you can really rely on and make part of your plans. All you need is getting caught by some mad traffic cop and in court it turns out you are out of status and you will be deported.
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