H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules • Hacker News Board

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#141

Post by blinkingled » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 1:06 AM UTC

ksk wrote: post #113

blinkingled wrote: post #29

This will just increase outsourcing - I wonder if there's a law that's going to address that too - a tariff for software and services brought from outside the country. Seriously, attacking H1B problem purely with salary raises is the wrong approach for many reasons - not all jobs cost a 100k that you can always find American workers to do, it doesn't consider cost of living and further entices companies to look into…

>a tariff for software and services brought from outside the country. Its an interdependent world, and such things will probably cause another global depression. "While you're squeezing the other guy's balls, someone else has their hands on your balls" Outsourcing is not a very black and white issue. For one thing, people can't simultaneously claim that "My employers are able to recognize my talent" while also claimi…

Oh I am absolutely not advocating tariff on outsourcing, far from it. I actually prefer a balanced system hardened against abuse - it's just that there's so much hot headedness going on right now I was wondering if more protectionism in the name of creating jobs is on the way.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#142

Post by MichaelBurge » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 1:06 AM UTC

whyileft wrote: post #83

Nrsolis wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is something that I've long suspected was going on with the H1B system. In essence, we have a limited "guest worker" program that allocates most of the economic benefits to the company (in terms of a compliant workforce that has little incentive or ability to take their skills to a competing company that might offer a better salary or career options) while allocating most of the costs to the actual H1B workers A…

> There is an acute shortage of capable, knowledgeable workers trained in the skills that industry needs. Just like there is an acute shortage of NFL Quarterbacks that are capable of leading a team to a super bowl championship. The problem with this skills gap myth is that we are looking for people who are better than most of their peers in the industry. The will always be a shortage of top 10% performers in the indu…

This would only be true if companies needed better employees than their competitors. If you merely need someone capable of doing a job, there's no such limitation: it's logically-possible for 100% of software developers to be able to put a script in cron that runs a SQL query to generate a report.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#143

Post by luckydata » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 1:07 AM UTC

andrewfong wrote: post #103

shas3 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure about the bidding war. I've been in situations where companies are looking for people with specific skills (e.g. working with specific microbiology techniques) but would never be able to outbid what Facebook or someone in Bay Area would pay for generalist skills in another field. There is nowhere close to 100% elasticity in wages to make an auction system fair. Also, this would handicap companies in low-…

You could index wage to some cost-of-living metric set by the Department of Labor. That would control for regional differences between company. It'd also further incentivize "outsourcing" to domestic locales with cheaper costs of living. That's arguably a good thing since places with cheaper costs of living would benefit more from the workforce bump than those with high costs.

The Bay Area could truly benefit by some reduction in the H1B workforce. The influx of foreign workers contributes greatly to the housing shortage that's hurting everyone right now.

p.s.: Just in case you're wondering, I'm an immigrant and I left the bay area exactly for the reasons I'm highlighting.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#144

Post by vadym909 » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 1:07 AM UTC

Why $100K makes sense. Data from 2014 showing how many H1b and the average salary for the top H1b seekers. The legit companies are paying on average >$100K

Infosys 32,379 $76,494 Tcs 8,785 $66,113 Wipro 6,733 $69,953 Igate 2,056 $67,168 Cognizan 1,704 $67,506 L & T 4,380 $59,933 Hcl 3,012 $81,376 Tech Mah 2,249 $73,374 Ust Glob 1,549 $73,374

Deloitte 8,028 $85,295 Ibm 5,839 $87,789 Accenture5,099 $70,878 E& Y 2,188 $88,353 NttData 1,156 $100,889

Microsft 3,911 $113,408 Qualcom 3,086 $105,169 Google 2,163 $126,565 Intel 1,945 $102,883 Oracle 1,773 $113,065 Amazon 1,256 $109,409 Jpmorgan 1,256 $105,837 Apple 1,038 $130,690

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#145

Post by cmdrfred » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 1:08 AM UTC

cmurf wrote: post #129

geebee wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that I'm sympathetic to employers who want to pay less. Keep in mind, the US takes in well over a million immigrants a year, and has a huge internal workforce. The H1B was created to help employers find critical and highly skilled workers that are in desperately short supply in the US. "Oh, but we can't afford to pay them a lot of money, that's not fair!" isn't the sort of argument that tends to evoke mu…

Why is it OK to pay a cheap wage for work done by an outsourced employee not in the U.S. for the benefit of a U.S. customer; but suddenly not OK when that person is in the U.S.? If the answer is merely, a critical plurality doesn't like that market outcome and has voted to legislate an alternative outcome, well OK. That's the system we have. But on principle, this must be admitted to be protectionism, it's the anti-t…

If you want to go down the route of protectionist laws you need look to further than the copyright and patent systems. Isn't that anti-free market in the same way accept more to the detriment of consumers as opposed to firms? It seems we live in a nation that has rules that govern our markets and everyone is fine with that, until you wish to use that very same system to protect workers in some way.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#146

Post by arcticbull » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 1:10 AM UTC

diogenescynic wrote: post #38

shas3 wrote: post #24

I think there's a big misconception here on this thread, thanks to the poorly written WSJ blog post. Rep. Issa's bill only applies to companies which have more than 15% of their workforce of 50 or more on visas. That number is calibrated to affect outsourcing companies like Infosys, TCS, HCL, etc. So, while it's fun to jump on the "foreigners shouldn't work in America" bandwagon on this thread, this bill is not what…

Sounds awesome considering those body shops use up most of the H-1B quota and significantly underpay their employees compared to industry wages. For example, somewhere between 47% and 85% of H-1Bs are being significantly underpaid compared to their peers, evidence that the program is not being used to bring over workers with "specialized knowledge" as they claim--but to drive down wages. It makes sense though, when y…

How about the top in their job title in their geographical area? That way you can take into account pay variance over the US.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#147

Post by findjashua » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 1:12 AM UTC

cthalupa wrote: post #131

findjashua wrote: post #48

The real problem with H1B, that outsourcing firms exploit, is the lottery system. Issa's proposal doesn't address that problem. Zoe Lofgren's bill, which replaces the lottery with a salary ranking system, would be much more effective, in my opinion. http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/06/technology/h1b-reform-bill/

Without a provision to account for recent grads, this is also a terrible bill. Recent grads are going to be competing against people with years of experience, and the pay is going to reflect this. That means there's less reason for kids to go to school in the US, since they're going to have to leave, or if they do go, we lose that talent. They might not be paid as much as someone coming in with more experience, but t…

I agree - there should be a separate quota for students graduating from top-tier universities.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#148

Post by dpark » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 1:12 AM UTC

anarazel wrote: post #102

mjevans wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this proposed bill doesn't go far enough. H-1B visas should ONLY be granted for workers that are in such need that they are above the 90th percentile of pay for that role. They should also be limited to no more commitment to the company than their peer workers. Once within the country, an H-1B worker should also be able to leave for other employment (without the top market rate requirement) whenever they…

> Once within the country, an H-1B worker should also be able to leave for other employment (without the top market rate requirement) whenever they choose and with a 6-12 month grace period for finding new work if they quit or are laid off. Isn't that just going to lead tata/infosys/whatnot to establish front companies that people then immediately leave and join tata/infosys/whatnot?

How would that work? People agree to take a paper job for $150k and then quit and take the $75k? This seems like pretty easy behavior to both prohibit and enforce.

But I'm not sure why those people wouldn't just go to Google and leave Infosys on the hook for all their initial immigration expenses anyway.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#149

Post by ojbyrne » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 1:12 AM UTC

joering2 wrote: post #81

suryacom wrote: post #27

On one talks about the actual issue with the H1B. I'm a H1B holder from India, living and working in USA for past 10 years. The actual incentive for companies is that, an H1B holder from India has less rights, they cannot change job or even travel freely outside USA (for decades). That gives the employers full control of the employee. Any guess why companies only recruit from India and China? Because, the country bas…

Oh, and while you're on it.. don't lose that Green Card! It costs about $27 in Cali to get a dup of your lost DL [1]; while your Green Card replacement costs... $450! [2] [1] http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/replace-license.php [2] https://www.bridge.us/articles/misplace-green-card/ Its very obvious USCIS prays on the fact that most immigrants do not make enough money to actually hire (expensive) lawyer and take them…

I'd say lots of immigrants have the money. What they don't have is a vote.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#150

Post by rodgerd » Tue, Jan 10, 2017, 1:12 AM UTC

Always entertaining watching the HN zeitgeist on H-1Bs or offshoring of tech jobs and contrasting it with the attitude to, say, the elimination of millions of trucking or retail jobs.