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H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

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Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#91

Post by davidw »

nugget wrote: post #86
davidw wrote: post #39

Why not take a courageous approach and let people in who want to work? Don't tie them to one job. Don't pick arbitrary numbers of the 'right' number of immigrants. Don't try ever more complex schemes based on where people live and what job they do. Keep the government involved to vet them in terms of avoiding criminals, and let the market handle how many people to bring in, not government bureaucrats and politicians.…

One challenge is that people who grew up in America have totally different expectations in terms of quality of life and living standards than immigrants from poor countries who are willing to move here and start from scratch. A poor kid from India or China might move to Silicon Valley or NYC and spend a decade sharing a studio with 4-5 others in his/her situation, just for the chance to escape poverty back home. Is i…

They are already competing, though.

You're probably right that we need to do something to ameliorate the worst effects of global competition and automation, but keeping talented people out (the number of H1B visas is totally dwarfed by people on family visas anyway) is probably not going to help.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#92

Post by [deleted] »

suryacom wrote: post #32
suryacom wrote: post #27

On one talks about the actual issue with the H1B. I'm a H1B holder from India, living and working in USA for past 10 years. The actual incentive for companies is that, an H1B holder from India has less rights, they cannot change job or even travel freely outside USA (for decades). That gives the employers full control of the employee. Any guess why companies only recruit from India and China? Because, the country bas…

If TCS/Infosys brings in H1B folks to replace American workers; and those H1B folks leave TCS/Infosys the next day; then that business model will not work to begin with.

[deleted]

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#93

Post by ryandrake »

whyileft wrote: post #83
Nrsolis wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is something that I've long suspected was going on with the H1B system. In essence, we have a limited "guest worker" program that allocates most of the economic benefits to the company (in terms of a compliant workforce that has little incentive or ability to take their skills to a competing company that might offer a better salary or career options) while allocating most of the costs to the actual H1B workers A…

> There is an acute shortage of capable, knowledgeable workers trained in the skills that industry needs. Just like there is an acute shortage of NFL Quarterbacks that are capable of leading a team to a super bowl championship. The problem with this skills gap myth is that we are looking for people who are better than most of their peers in the industry. The will always be a shortage of top 10% performers in the indu…

There's also, by definition, a shortage of talent willing to work for far-below-market wages. It's in employers' best interest to address this "shortage".

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#94

Post by yazaddaruvala »

user5994461 wrote: post #10
learc83 wrote: post #3

Raising the minimum is about the only way (short of auctions) to prevent companies from playing games with the prevailing wage requirements.

The only way to have proper wages for H1B is to allow workers to change company. Right now, the H1B workers have zero leverage power, zero negotiation power and they can't change job.

To be frank: The companies who abuse the H1B system are smart enough to hire people who are not typically hirable elsewhere, but which also are just about able to overcome their respective tasks.

One instance of this is: Hire someone who is not typically hire-able elsewhere, but encourage them to work an extra 30 hours a week, and get acceptable throughput out of them.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#95

Post by geebee »

edblarney wrote: post #5
EduardoBautista wrote: post #2

Honestly, I am all for raising the wage requirement. This will definitely help to reduce the use of H1B for hiring underpaid foreign labor.

" This will definitely help to reduce the use of H1B for hiring underpaid foreign labor." Surely it will, but it also may damage many companies ability to compete effectively. A lot of talented R&D folks, outside of the Valley, may be earning 80-95K doing valuable work - and most of the surpluses will go to those companies, to the US in form of taxes, and remember those people spend mostly in the US as well. So the i…

Here's the thing - if a corporation's "competitiveness" is dependent on a deeply coercive ability to control their employee's right to live and work in the US, with severely limited mobility rights for the worker, I'm not sure I care all that much.

If you can't pay high enough wages to compete for talent that has the freedom to choose which job and industry they work in, then you're probably not a high value employer.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#96

Post by jrs95 »

learc83 wrote: post #18
mjevans wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this proposed bill doesn't go far enough. H-1B visas should ONLY be granted for workers that are in such need that they are above the 90th percentile of pay for that role. They should also be limited to no more commitment to the company than their peer workers. Once within the country, an H-1B worker should also be able to leave for other employment (without the top market rate requirement) whenever they…

>they are above the 90th percentile of pay for that role The problem with that is that companies will do what they are doing now. Give people titles for lower wage jobs (support, QA etc...) pay them the 90% for the lower wage job, and have them perform the duties of the higher wage job.

That is a problem. I do agree that it doesn't go far enough though. It probably ought to be like $150k for a minimum, and tie that to inflation. Even if that creates a short term supply problem, that'll just incentivize investment in job training and raise wages.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#97

Post by tn13 »

geebee wrote: post #85
shas3 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure about the bidding war. I've been in situations where companies are looking for people with specific skills (e.g. working with specific microbiology techniques) but would never be able to outbid what Facebook or someone in Bay Area would pay for generalist skills in another field. There is nowhere close to 100% elasticity in wages to make an auction system fair. Also, this would handicap companies in low-…

I'm not sure that I'm sympathetic to employers who want to pay less. Keep in mind, the US takes in well over a million immigrants a year, and has a huge internal workforce. The H1B was created to help employers find critical and highly skilled workers that are in desperately short supply in the US. "Oh, but we can't afford to pay them a lot of money, that's not fair!" isn't the sort of argument that tends to evoke mu…

> We're talking about empowering corporations to bestow US live and work rights on an employee of their choosing, in an end-run around normal immigration procedures.

What is wrong with that ? Honestly I dont see why getting Indian and Chinese workers as cheap labor is bad either.

Whatever regulations drove out manufacturing sector from USA mgiht drive out tech from USA too.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#98

Post by slaveofallah93 »

serge2k wrote: post #71
davidw wrote: post #39

Why not take a courageous approach and let people in who want to work? Don't tie them to one job. Don't pick arbitrary numbers of the 'right' number of immigrants. Don't try ever more complex schemes based on where people live and what job they do. Keep the government involved to vet them in terms of avoiding criminals, and let the market handle how many people to bring in, not government bureaucrats and politicians.…

You would tank salaries.

In the short run, maybe. After the market reaches equilibrium, no.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#99

Post by hatred »

hibikir wrote: post #57
79d697i6fdif wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The root of the problem with H1B is that despite a bunch of laws meant to make sure that these workers are paid and treated the same as US citizens, that isn't happening at a lot of companies. This is creating a huge demand for visa workers as a kind of indentured servitude. This isn't a good situation for US citizens or visa workers. If the laws are fixed by, for instance, making it far easier to switch jobs on a vi…

It's not that hard to switch jobs once you have an H1B: The hard part is to do so while trying to get a green card. Ultimately, the tremendous wait times for everyone in the 00s, and now the tremendous lines only for a few countries, come down to the maximum number of green card numbers being vastly inferior to the number of people that qualify for said visas and are already living and working in the US. Even in case…

Curious, why can't you change jobs during the GC process while waiting for your priority date to become current? I thought it was easily do-able?

Most companies already pay for the attorney expensed once you change employers i.e., PERM, I140 etc.

Re: H-1B Visas: U.S. Lawmaker Re-Introduces Bill to Tighten Rules

#100

Post by aianus »

suryacom wrote: post #27

On one talks about the actual issue with the H1B. I'm a H1B holder from India, living and working in USA for past 10 years. The actual incentive for companies is that, an H1B holder from India has less rights, they cannot change job or even travel freely outside USA (for decades). That gives the employers full control of the employee. Any guess why companies only recruit from India and China? Because, the country bas…

> Any guess why companies only recruit from India and China?

There are loads of Canadians [0] on TNs and H1Bs in the US and most don't particularly care about ever getting a green card. How do you explain their presence if you believe companies only recruit foreigners from poor countries in order to exploit their desire for US residency?

[0] https://techvibes.com/2012/02/24/there-are-350000-canadians-...

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