Live data from Hacker News

F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

nytimes.com

101–110 of 161 posts

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#101
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with your reasoning is that these cars were designed to not meet the emissions requirements from the factory . From day one, they were only designed to meet the emissions standards during the testing, not on the road. They were purposefully designed to cheat on the test. Your statement would be true if test performance varied from real-world performance due to environmental factors, but that's not the cas…

> Your statement would be true if test performance varied from real-world performance due to environmental factors, but that's not the case. ..or due to engine temperature, speed, gear, gas pedal position and tons of other variables WHICH IS the case. That's why emission requirements are (and must be) test-specific.

I'm sorry but you're wrong, and since I know you read my comment (you quoted it) it almost seems like you're deliberately wrong.

Yes, testing varies from the real world based on a number of factors. Environmental, driving style, etc. And the current tests don't care about that, which is a completely separate problem. The problem that VW got in trouble for is specifically designing their cars to cheat on the existing test.

Yes, cars behave differently if they're driven uphill vs downhill, if they're driven in the rain vs in the snow, if they're driven in the mountains or at sea level, but that doesn't matter at all. The test doesn't care, the law doesn't care. They're willing to accept that difference, as long as the car doesn't actively circumvent the purpose of the test. Which VW did.

You can argue that the test is invalid, and I agree. But that doesn't matter. The test is the test and VW cheated it. They built their cars specifically to have a completely different performance in the test vs in the real world with the specific intent to cheat the test.

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#102
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to be game over for diesel cars in general, even if you ignore their eventual replacement with electric cars. They have been getting a lot of bad press lately. Their popularity was due to their higher fuel efficiency; But for diesels, it seems that there is trade-off between fuel efficiency and NOx emissions ( http://www.livescience.com/52284-volkswagen-scandal-clean-di... ). With many cities and countries t…

diesels are popular in europe for one reason that probably somebody from us will not understand. the price of fuel. because the price of fuel is so much bigger fuel efficiency is the biggest concern

No, thats just one reason. Disel engines are doing way more kilometres in average before they blow up. Nearly all Taxi/Cabs in Europe are Diesel for that reason.

I really doubt people care about the emission stuff at all...

SRC: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=16748

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#103
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is such thing as "evading the law" you know. It's not enough that you satisfy the regulation, if you act against the intent of the law in other ways. Or perhaps it's different in the US, but that's what I would expect in most of Europe.

It seems that the main difference between law evasion (which is illegal) and law avoidance (which is legal) is that evasion is concealed. https://www.crunch.co.uk/blog/startup-advice/2015/05/20/tax-... Since VW has admitted to detecting test conditions, it's now no longer evading the regulations but avoiding it, right?

It doesn't really matter what they're doing or saying now, what matters is what they were doing and saying at the time the evaded/avoided the law. If I admit to breaking the law, I still broke the law and I will still be punished for it. It doesn't retroactively make it okay just because I've admitted to it.

At the time they submitted their cars for testing, they told the world these cars met the test standards and did not say they had software to detect the test and modify the engine tuning. They only admitted it after they got caught, so at the time of the testing, they were evading the law, not avoiding it.

Avoiding the law would be not submitting their cars for testing.

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#104
post #84
post #46

I wonder if the same would have happened to an American company in the USA. If so, what's the deal with the bankers that did orders of magnitude more damage?

Harley Davidson was caught doing the same emissions scam and no one seems to care. Granted there's less vehicles from them compared to the 11 million Volks but still.

???

Somebody created emission requirements for motorcycles?

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#105
post #88
post #46

I wonder if the same would have happened to an American company in the USA. If so, what's the deal with the bankers that did orders of magnitude more damage?

The CEO of Enron, and Martha Stewart come to mind as other CEOs who have gone to prison for the actions.

Martha went to prison for securities fraud, not customer facing actions.

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#106
post #45

I'm surprised that he decided to stay in the United States. Germany doesn't extradite its own citizens to countries outside the EU (except in very limited cases such as war criminals), so he would have been perfectly safe if he'd moved back to Germany. And even if he would have been sentenced in Germany the sentences handed out in such cases are _much_ more relaxed than the potential sentence he's facing in the Unite…

It's called "Faling on your sword". The idea that VW would come out of this with no executives going to prison is laughable. They broke black-letter law. It wasn't just recklessness. There is no plausible deniability. They straight-up cheated. They knew they cheated. Management endorsed the cheating. When the initial investigation got going they lied about cheating. My guess is a number of execs will plead guilty bef…

I wouldn't have taken the jail time for granted. Goldman Sachs managed to escape their admitted fraud with no executives going to jail.

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#107
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Harley Davidson was caught doing the same emissions scam and no one seems to care. Granted there's less vehicles from them compared to the 11 million Volks but still.

??? Somebody created emission requirements for motorcycles?

[deleted]

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#108
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CEO of Enron, and Martha Stewart come to mind as other CEOs who have gone to prison for the actions.

Martha went to prison for securities fraud, not customer facing actions.

She went to prison for lying to the FBI during the investigation of her alleged securities fraud. IIRC she was never found to have committed securities fraud (though she very likely did).

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#109
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CEO of Enron, and Martha Stewart come to mind as other CEOs who have gone to prison for the actions.

Martha went to prison for securities fraud, not customer facing actions.

Actually, she went to prison for lying to the FBI - which is pretty much impossible to avoid doing if you spend any amount of time talking to them.

Don't ever talk to federal investigators. That's your lawyer's job.

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#110
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even just emissions, lots of companies play software tricks to game efficiency numbers. Chevy and Ford have both played games with the manual V8 sports cars that locks out the 1 -> 2 shift and force the driver to go 1 -> 4 to save gas when the computer sees the car accelerating at the same rate as the EPA test. The funniest thing was the Ford would sell you a software update to defeat skip shift under the guise o…

I was under the impression that unless you bought an aftermarket tune the 1 -> 2 (and maybe even 1 -> 3) shift was always locked out no matter your rate of acceleration. Has this changed in the past few years?

Not on my 2002 Corvette. First gear and low throttle opening invokes CAGS, the computer assisted hear selection.
Post reply on HN