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F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

nytimes.com

81–90 of 161 posts

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#81
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars aren't only required to pass emissions tests, they're required to have their emissions within the specified limits at all times. The purpose of the tests is to ensure compliance.

This is not the case. If it were the case, the regulations would say "No more than X NOX emitted per mile, even when climbing Mount Everest, even when 5 years old, even when poorly maintained, and even when used with low quality fuel, and in all other conditions anyone might put them in." That clearly isn't reasonable, so instead the rules are written to say "They must pass XYZ tests". As long as those tests are pass…

There is such thing as "evading the law" you know. It's not enough that you satisfy the regulation, if you act against the intent of the law in other ways. Or perhaps it's different in the US, but that's what I would expect in most of Europe.

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#82
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You fell for it.. this is US economic imperialism, and nothing to do about emissions.

Maybe, but it's also justice being served. When a poor black man in America is arrested for a rape, it's racism and classism because a rich white man is far more likely to get away with that crime. But it's also justice. I don't think you would argue that we should let poor black men get away with rape just to make things more fair.

When certain groups are exempt from the force of the law, while others feel its full weight, it is not justice, but rather a mockery of it.

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#83
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to be game over for diesel cars in general, even if you ignore their eventual replacement with electric cars. They have been getting a lot of bad press lately. Their popularity was due to their higher fuel efficiency; But for diesels, it seems that there is trade-off between fuel efficiency and NOx emissions ( http://www.livescience.com/52284-volkswagen-scandal-clean-di... ). With many cities and countries t…

diesels are popular in europe for one reason that probably somebody from us will not understand. the price of fuel. because the price of fuel is so much bigger fuel efficiency is the biggest concern

I've stopped worrying about it completely. I used to have a Nissan Qashqai, with a 1.6dCi engine - my average diesel consumption for 3 years I had that car, was about 7.0L/100km. I now have a Mercedes with a 2.0L turbocharged petrol engine - my average consumption so far is 8.5L/100km of petrol. My fiancee has a VW Polo with a 1.2L petrol engine, and she averages 6.5L/100km of petrol. I literally don't see a point of buying a diesel car, ever again.

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#84
post #46

I wonder if the same would have happened to an American company in the USA. If so, what's the deal with the bankers that did orders of magnitude more damage?

Harley Davidson was caught doing the same emissions scam and no one seems to care. Granted there's less vehicles from them compared to the 11 million Volks but still.

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#85
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You fell for it.. this is US economic imperialism, and nothing to do about emissions.

Maybe, but it's also justice being served. When a poor black man in America is arrested for a rape, it's racism and classism because a rich white man is far more likely to get away with that crime. But it's also justice. I don't think you would argue that we should let poor black men get away with rape just to make things more fair.

It's selective justice. Imagine driving down in a 2009 Toyota Camry with your well dressed family on a well paved highway in Alabama at 78 mph in a 65 mph zone on a nice, clear sunny Sunday a safe distance away from the preceding car at the same velocity as quite literally every other car in every other lane you see. Clearly not posing a safety threat, not lane-weaving indicating any form of compromised faculties or dangerous behavior, no threat at all really. However, Smokey the Bear state trooper Bob decides he doesn't like the way you look. You could be black, you could be wearing a Ralph Lauren Polo with a NORML insignia on it and Bob just happens to hate pot, you could have an atheist bumper sticker and Bob just got on shift after a rousing sermon from Pastor Jedidiah. Justice imposed on selected individuals is not justice.

Ethically, were he to enforce the law to the letter with an egalitarian approach, the first person he saw as he got on shift exceeding 65 should have been pulled over. As soon as that ticket was issued, he should have done so for the next person, ad infinitum until he was off-duty.

In actuality, if every single arrested individual stopped one day and decided to exercise his or her constitutional right to see his day in court like that prep school[1] individual did, we'd see what would amount to be a DDoS on the system incapable of handling a caseload of such magnitude. Pragmatically, an ADA will use a very effective method - known colloquially as "charge stacking" - to intimidate the accused into pleaing out a charge he would likely beat[2].

Though I'm totally with you on the classist component - should Michael Jordan's son commit a crime, he'd be far less likely to be convicted than whitey-mc-Kentucky-Meth-Mouth Tim's son due to the same lack of resources afforded to him.

[1] RE: your rape scenario -- Compare this aggressive attorney http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/28/us/new-hampshire-prep-rape... vs these less fortunate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_jogger_case

[2] Even more compelling is the motion for dismissal those defense attorneys could raise in aggregate on 6th amendment grounds. In the state of California, the 45 day cap could be breached fairly easily if all of the defense attorneys concurrently suggested to their clients to enter a not-guilty plea. You'd also see a marked decline in arbitrary traffic stops, as arresting officers would be forced to spend the day in court rather than in speed traps.

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#86
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not been closely following this scandal, so I was unaware that other car manufacturers have been indicted in emissions cheating. Could you share a source with more information about this?

I thought it's a common knowledge most/all are doing it in one way or the other. Same as professional athletes in many sports, ie cycling - you cannot be really successful without any hacks/borderline cheating, it's more a matter of being few steps ahead of doping tests and current rules, thriving in the gray area. I simply don't believe anymore there are any clean athletes in first 3 places in any sport where there…

Wow. This makes me really glad I don't buy cars and don't patronize sports. What a load of crap!

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#87
post #20
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pollution is murder (statistically).

Making cars is "statistical murder". Bad schools are "statistical murder". Selling cheesecake is "statistical murder". Enforce the laws you have to help keeping honest people honest, but please do not selectively blow individual cases out of proportion with gut appeal tactics.

>Making cars is "statistical murder". Bad schools are "statistical murder". Selling cheesecake is "statistical murder".

Yeah, the question is how much. Cheating on emissions tests is definitely more murder than selling cheesecake.

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#88
post #46

I wonder if the same would have happened to an American company in the USA. If so, what's the deal with the bankers that did orders of magnitude more damage?

The CEO of Enron, and Martha Stewart come to mind as other CEOs who have gone to prison for the actions.

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#89

Don't get me wrong. I find it interesting that the FBI will arrest anyone for conspiracy when they so clearly ignore it in numerous other cases (such as in banking, real estate). I doubt though that this will be an emerging pattern for the FBI. I'm sure many more horrible conspiracies against the American people will be ignored efficiently.

Just so everyone else understands how our justice system works (at the Federal level anyway). The FBI does not just "decide" to arrest someone. An agent can start an investigation and want to arrest someone. But if a federal district attorney is not on board, usually no arrest will happen.

99 times out of 100, a Federal District Attorney (usually in the region where the company / person is headquartered) makes this decision and then the FBI (or other federal agency) acts, especially in major cases like this.

Many times there is a working relationship. An FBI agent might call a district attorney and "shop" his case: "Hey Jim, it's agent Bob, I have a slam dunk case for you here, call me." Other times the crime is serious enough its totally obvious that everyone is going to peruse it (murder, child exploitation, major drug stuff, etc.) And other times, the District Attorney calls the agent and says "Bob, these Volkswagen people need to pay for what they have done, lets throw the book at them, start investigating."

We will probably never know what happened in this Volkswagen case, but make no mistake that people inside the White House, FBI headquarters and Loretta Lynch's office all had to "thumbs up" a persecution on this level. One lowly agent doesn't make these decisions.

Re: F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

#90
post #84
post #46

I wonder if the same would have happened to an American company in the USA. If so, what's the deal with the bankers that did orders of magnitude more damage?

Harley Davidson was caught doing the same emissions scam and no one seems to care. Granted there's less vehicles from them compared to the 11 million Volks but still.

Doesn't seem to be the same from what I can tell. AFAIK the Harley Davidson "defeat device" would still emit unacceptable levels of emissions during an emissions test. And that they were intended for track/racing use.

This is very different from purposefully hiding your emissions levels from testers.

Whether that difference is material when meting out punishment is up to judgement. But calling it "no different" seems pretty wrong.

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