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First Nokia-branded Android smartphone to be released exclusively in China

bbc.co.uk

61–70 of 73 posts

Re: First Nokia-branded Android smartphone to be released exclusively in China

#61
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Wasted time first with Maemo"... Damn that hurts my brain to read, and in hindsight, I have to agree. The n900's open platform built on debian, functional resistive touch and a hardware keyboard should have gained traction. Of course, without the monetized ecosystems of app stores and specialized accessories it is no wonder the policymakers didn't want it.

If you think back to 2009, it was a different era. People were still paying carriers for _ring tones_, and they were loathe to give up that level of profitable device control. For the first year of iPhone's life, there was no app store to speak of. And the n900 did have an App store. It was shitty, and suffered from the typical platform bootstrapping problem. And if I recall, there were some security holes that let p…

Valid points, but while I agree resistive sucks in every other instance I have experienced, the n800 and n900 were extremely well implemented iterations. Precision was spot on using fingers, fingernails or the included stylus.

As for the small keys: thumbnail precision. I had rare typos and multi factors more wpm than this on-screen capacitive nuisance I have no choice but to edit every 3rd word with now.

edit: additionally, 2009 was already too late. Android's release from Tmo exclusivity and iPhones release from AT&T exclusivity had opened the gates to mass consumption with ectremely effective marketing & fanfare. The writing was on the wall, RIM & Nokia didn't or couldn't see it in time, nor adapt.

edit 2: maemo app store was free as in speech & free as in beer, like any other linux distro's repository.

Re: First Nokia-branded Android smartphone to be released exclusively in China

#62

It was sad to see the decline of Nokia from being the most ubiquitous brand of phones to literally nothing today (in the smartphone and feature phone market). If they had adopted Android instead of going with Windows Phone, things could have been a lot better. Even when they made Windows Phone devices, at least the high end devices where critically acclaimed with everyone's only gripe only being Windows Phone (mainly…

I believe they would've been much better off if they abandoned their Meego and Maemo platforms and doubled down in Symbian.

Symbian was still going strong and cutting off in favor of Windows phone was obviously bad for their customers. So customers left Nokia.

If they'd stuck with Symbian they'd still have the low end of the market today.

Who knows down the line some opportunity could've come up to take advantage of its characteristics as a tiny mature non-appstore centric embedded OS.

Re: First Nokia-branded Android smartphone to be released exclusively in China

#63
post #27
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is sad, but I don't think it was the Microsoft deal that did Nokia in. Nokia had already been left behind when they finally realized that Symbian wasn't going to cut it against iOS and Android. I think they made a calculated decision: they could try and create an Android device to compete against the likes of Samsung, HTC, Motorola, and LG with basically no differentiation -OR- they could take Microsoft's money an…

Disagree. It's likely that Nokia, like many manufacturers, used the minimum specs possible to get a certain experience level. It could be that WP7 required lower specs to get the same smoothness that Android could achieve. That wouldn't be hard to believe, as Android wasn't even focusing on feeling "smooth" until long after the Galaxy S2 had come out. Nokia isn't somehow incapable of sourcing competitive parts aside…

I loved Nokia too. I think it was a bad idea to pick Windows Phone. I still think that by November 2011, Nokia wasn't going to become a great smartphone company regardless of their OS choice.

Nokia wouldn't have been able to competitively source parts. Apple and Samsung were putting down huge component orders (and Samsung makes a lot of its own parts like processors, RAM, storage, and displays). As Nokia's first Android phone, they would have made smaller orders at higher cost.

If you're going to argue that they only needed certain specs to get the same experience, it undercuts your argument that they're able to competitively source given the price of the Lumia 800 against the competition. If you're going to say that Android needed the more power, than if the Lumia 800 were an Android phone, it would have been terrible - or they would have had to spend up on parts.

Nokia was great, but they ignored smartphones for too long. I don't think the Microsoft deal did them in - they were done-in before that. They spent too much time pursuing Maemo and Symbian alternatives to Android. When they came out with the Lumia 800, it wasn't amazing. It was another slab phone with mediocre specs.

By November 2011, you had to do something really impressive and Nokia wasn't doing something impressive. That's my argument. The market had already decided that it didn't give a crap about brands from the dumbphone era. It might have given a crap about Nokia. I mean, Nokia was great. The fact still remains that even if they went with an Android device, they needed a better phone. People were already quite happy with Samsung Android devices, while HTC, Motorola, SonyEricsson, and LG were all competing in that space with established brands.

Even if we ignore the single-core CPU and 512MB of RAM, the Lumia 800's display simply wasn't competitive against other offerings.

Frankly, Motorola and HTC have both come out with really nice, compelling Android devices and both of them haven't been able to keep up. They both got on board the Android train a lot earlier than November 2011.

Yes, I liked Nokia's brand better. Yes, Nokia made some great build-quality devices. I even have a Lumia sitting on my dresser as I type this. I still think that a Nokia Android phone released in November 2011 would have been below-par compared to other available Android devices. It certainly would have sold some, but HTC, Motorola, LG, Sony sell some. But even if it had 1GB of RAM and a dual-core processor, the Lumia 800 had a small display compared to Android phones, a comparatively low-res display, it was a good deal thicker (40% thicker than a Galaxy SII) and heavier (22% heavier than a Galaxy SII), with a smaller battery.

That's the thing one can't account for. Maybe the RAM and CPU were spec'd by Microsoft. Maybe the RAM and CPU were competitive in terms of experience against Android phones. The fact is that Nokia couldn't manufacture something that was physically competitive in terms of weight, size, and battery capacity. A Lumia 800 Android phone with 1GB of RAM and a dual-core processor would have been thicker, heavier, and had less battery life with a smaller display. Customers wanted the larger display. Customers want more battery life. Even if Nokia had made it run Android, customers would have looked at it next to a Galaxy SII and most of them would have decided on the larger display, better display, better battery, while being thinner and lighter.

That's ultimately the issue. Regardless of RAM and CPU, the Lumia 800 just wasn't a superb phone. It was bulky and heavy. Nokia put a smaller display on it than consumers wanted.

I miss Nokia too. I wish they were still around. I just don't think that Windows Phone was the determining factor. I did like the build quality of the Lumias, but I don't think that would be enough to get most people to choose them over a competitor that was better in all other respects - especially as competitors ramped up their build quality a lot in 2012. Nokia had squandered their chance in the smartphone race regardless of OS. They were late to the game and the Lumia 800 just wasn't a flagship device. I miss Nokia, but blaming it on Windows Phone given that Nokia was late to smartphones generally and that the Lumia 800 was a poor offering with respect to what consumers wanted seems like shifting the blame because it's easier to hate on Microsoft for destroying the brand we loved than recognizing that Nokia just didn't make the transition to smartphones more generally.

Re: First Nokia-branded Android smartphone to be released exclusively in China

#64

It was sad to see the decline of Nokia from being the most ubiquitous brand of phones to literally nothing today (in the smartphone and feature phone market). If they had adopted Android instead of going with Windows Phone, things could have been a lot better. Even when they made Windows Phone devices, at least the high end devices where critically acclaimed with everyone's only gripe only being Windows Phone (mainly…

Sad for Nokia. Sad for BB. Sad for Palm. Sad for Motorola.

Except not. All of these companies ignored the future, even when it was presented to them on a silver platter.

They all thought it was the hardware that was the most important, even when Microsoft proved decades earlier it was the software.

Re: First Nokia-branded Android smartphone to be released exclusively in China

#65
post #49

Still waiting for an Android vendor to differentiate by matching Apple in the length of time a given device gets security patches for the software.

Imagine if you had to wait for HP or Acer to update your Windows PC. How terrible would that be. Nvidia, AMD and Intel stop making new drivers because they want to sell new chips, OEM stop making updates because they want to sell new machines. Truly crappy model. But this is what we have with Android phones. Qualcomm is not compiling new kernels past 2 year because they want to sell new chips and OEM don't bother upd…

Apple also wants to sell new devices.

So there is something to be said for longer support times, it must be good for something.

Re: First Nokia-branded Android smartphone to be released exclusively in China

#66
post #36
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact. When Samsung adopted Android, Nokia still had twice the market share in phones that Samsung did. Adopting Android early would've absolutely helped. Instead they wasted time first with Maemo, which the executive team never took seriously enough to expand across the product lines, then with "touch Symbian", which they should've known it would have never worked, and then with Windows Phone, when it was already…

"Wasted time first with Maemo"... Damn that hurts my brain to read, and in hindsight, I have to agree. The n900's open platform built on debian, functional resistive touch and a hardware keyboard should have gained traction. Of course, without the monetized ecosystems of app stores and specialized accessories it is no wonder the policymakers didn't want it.

N900 is coming back:

https://neo900.org/

Re: First Nokia-branded Android smartphone to be released exclusively in China

#67
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Closest I've seen is Sony. The problem is reliance on Qualcomm, who have always hated GPL software, and their driver support shows it.

For how long do Sony phones get security updates? Are they at least monthly as with Nexus/Pixel?

I can't tell you about each month but I bought my mother a Z3 Compact around 14 months ago. It got Marshmallow ~6 weeks after its official release, and will have Nougat pretty soon now (so I heard on the net).

Even though I dislike Sony recently, they were awesome -- up to their Z3 phones and Z4 tablet releases. And they don't abandon their devices as quickly as everybody else.

Re: First Nokia-branded Android smartphone to be released exclusively in China

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like my Lumia 925 and the lack of apps was not of problem for me. The apps that mattered were all there. What bothered me was that vendors didn't bother updating those apps or giving it feature parity. When I dropped it for nth time and the display went dead, I bought a Moto G and have been happy with it (gave the G3 away and bought a G4 recently). I miss Windows Phone, it was a really nice and fast OS and i…

I went Android > iPhone 4, HTC HD7, Lumia 900, Lumia 925, Note 4, iPhone 6s+, iPhone 7+. My iPhone 4 was terrible. Replaced 3 times because it kept breaking (drops calls randomly, random reboots) But I've had nothing but terrible experience with Android. The first month is fine then it slows down to a grinding halt... My windows phones to date are still the best phone experience. But MS didn't release the newest phon…

Youe issues with android are easy to explain. You were not using android. You used horrible forks by HTC and Samsung.

Its kind of sad that peoples android impression gets downed when they actually never run a clean Android..

Re: First Nokia-branded Android smartphone to be released exclusively in China

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For how long do Sony phones get security updates? Are they at least monthly as with Nexus/Pixel?

I can't tell you about each month but I bought my mother a Z3 Compact around 14 months ago. It got Marshmallow ~6 weeks after its official release, and will have Nougat pretty soon now (so I heard on the net). Even though I dislike Sony recently, they were awesome -- up to their Z3 phones and Z4 tablet releases. And they don't abandon their devices as quickly as everybody else.

Err, my Z3 didn't get Marshmallow until more than half a year passed from the release date.

Marshmallow was released in late October 2015 [1]. Meanwhile, the Z3 only just started rolling in early April 2016 [2]. That's pretty mediocre if you ask me.

[1]: https://android.googleblog.com/2015/10/get-ready-for-sweet-t... [2]: http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/04/09/marshmallow-update-r...

Re: First Nokia-branded Android smartphone to be released exclusively in China

#70
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went Android > iPhone 4, HTC HD7, Lumia 900, Lumia 925, Note 4, iPhone 6s+, iPhone 7+. My iPhone 4 was terrible. Replaced 3 times because it kept breaking (drops calls randomly, random reboots) But I've had nothing but terrible experience with Android. The first month is fine then it slows down to a grinding halt... My windows phones to date are still the best phone experience. But MS didn't release the newest phon…

Youe issues with android are easy to explain. You were not using android. You used horrible forks by HTC and Samsung. Its kind of sad that peoples android impression gets downed when they actually never run a clean Android..

That's not entirely true. The problems I encountered on the Note 4 were no different from those encountered by my flatmate who was using the Nexus 6.

For example if we did a clean install. What's App or LINE would both open the camera in ~1-2 seconds.

With only installing a few apps (facebook, twitter, whats app, line...) after 1 month, both the note 4 and nexus would degrade in performance that What's App or LINE would take ~8 seconds to open the camera...

After using an iPhone 6s+ for over a year, the camera opens instantly, every time...

I thought it was my Note 4 and got it replaced twice... my flatmate couldn't replace the nexus since he bought it in Hong Kong and Google Singapore wont help.

Everyone I know who has Android says iPhone sucks, but constantly complain their (android) phones are slow and laggy.

Again, I don't understand why people like Android.

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