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Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

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Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#141

Post by smallnamespace »

throwaway729 wrote: post #120
Noseshine wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it could be better that you learn a commercially dead language first. Why? It does not follow from your argument, you just make that claim - one that I find very strange.

> Why? Because it's a simpler language that contains the key ideas and skills that are trying to be taught, and doesn't contain other distracting details that can't be taught until after basic concepts are well-understood. Same reason lots of people don't like using Java as an intro language even though it's wildly popular. Having students type "public static void main..." a hundred times a semester before knowing en…

Aren't you making two claims that are unrelated?

1. Learning a simple assembly makes learning a second assembly easier

2. Therefore, it's more efficient to learn a simple assembly first

The 2nd statement does not directly follow from the first, because the total time to learn two languages can still be greater than the time to learn the 2nd language alone, even if there is a synergistic effect. I'm assuming here that the simple assembly is not useful, and the goal is purely to learn the 2nd language.

Like, let's say learning a simple assembly makes learning the second language 35% easier. Then learning both languages is better only if the second language would normally take 3x more time to learn.

However, if every subsequent language is also easier to learn, and you intend to learn many more languages, then maybe starting from a simple language will actually be best.

Talking about x86 in particular, it's pretty easy to define a simple, teachable subset of x86 and then expand from there.

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#142

Post by Retric »

jasode wrote: post #41
Retric wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which fails as it assumes text must have inherent meaning. But, it lets people avoid criticism making it a popular standpoint.

>Which fails as it assumes text must have inherent meaning. It doesn't assume that. It doesn't matter whether the text does or does not have inherent meaning. The essay's point is that the reader's judgement is just as valid as the writer's. As an extreme example, the phrase "colorless green ideas sleep furiously" [1] can be interpreted by the reader as having meaning even though Noam Chomsky says it's a meaningless…

With zero context your comment is without meaning. The only thing that separates it from a randomly generated markov chain is context.

Now, that does not mean the Author is infallible. But, discounting the authors intend is like ignoring a books sequels or even the second half of the text. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCeFbK-WEVE

In the end by discounting the author you are left with the lowest form of criticism, how did that make me feel. Which is not actually about the text, just the person writing.

Getting back to your phrase. Someone can assume line noise has meaning, but they are simply mistaken.

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#143

Post by analog31 »

ghaff wrote: post #95
analog31 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That which isn't tested, isn't taught. This is particularly the case if the test and the curriculum are sold by the same vendor. I could see a scenario where "elite" parents complain that their kids spent a year in school being drilled on reading credit card applications, at the expense of things like literature and poetry. (I'd probably be one of those parents, and in my locale, educated parents are constantly compl…

"There will always be a conflict between education and testing" It's pretty much inevitable, if the results of the testing have consequences, for teacher/student/school system/etc. that what is taught will often excessively focus on testing outcomes. Unfortunately, it's hard not to do this to at least some degree at scale. Without standardized testing of some sort, there isn't a lot of feedback for how well the proce…

It seems like maybe we're already back at that point. We went from trusting the teachers and schools, to adopting a test that measures household income, to hoping that we can trust the teachers and schools to educate our kids in spite of the tests.

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#144

Post by jjoonathan »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #133
jjoonathan wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you omit capital letters and periods and misuse ellipses in a post which attacks academic English? These choices would be annoying enough in any post but for this one in particular they undermine your credibility.

You've just called into question a race car driver's driving ability because you saw them not use their turn signal. Capitalization and punctuation shouldn't be your signals for quality in a comment on Chaucer and Shakespeare and literary history. I'm demonstrating one natural outcome of your criticism here by using proper punctuation, capitalization, and other grammatical minutiae while knowing not the damnedest thi…

> You've just called into question a race car driver's driving ability because you saw them not use their turn signal.

Note that I used the word "choice," indicating that I understood it to be a conscious decision rather than a lack of competence.

> Capitalization and punctuation shouldn't be your signals for quality in a comment on Chaucer and Shakespeare and literary history.

What makes you think I used them as exclusive signals? My claim wasn't that bad grammar made the parent post bad, it was that bad grammar had a negative contribution towards the overall credibility of the post.

> I'm demonstrating one natural outcome of your criticism...

Your reading comprehension might leave something to be desired, but the fact that a weak building may be built on a strong foundation does not imply that a strong building may have a weak foundation. To be clear: I am referring to your "example," not justifier's post, because I do not believe that justifier has a weak foundation, at least not with respect to grammar, which brings us back to the question of why.

Purposefully employing bad grammar in a post about English is a signal both that the writer holds strong and nontraditional opinions about English and that (s)he lacks the persuasive tact to fight one battle at a time. The way I see it, either quality alone could have led to a justified failing grade on an essay for reasons that have nothing to do with the veracity of its core claim.

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#145

Post by justifier »

jjoonathan wrote: post #126
justifier wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

professors teach to their opinion i took a shakespeare course at university where we were asked to read troilus and cressida and compare it to its source troilus and criseyde by chaucer i wrote that i disliked the piece because it just read like someone who recently got burned in love venting irrationally, noting that i liked shakespeare's version more because he gives the last word to pandarus(o) who uses it to comi…

Why did you omit capital letters and periods and misuse ellipses in a post which attacks academic English? These choices would be annoying enough in any post but for this one in particular they undermine your credibility.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13251451

i also avoid negative constructions.. look through my comment history

you will find it is completely devoid, except now for this comment, of any instances of using: no, not, never, none

do you think plato lacks credibility? have you ever read classics(o) in their original languages? theywereflippantinevenusingspacesbetweenwords(i)

i would ask that if you care to develop an opinion as to my credibility that it be based on my content rather than if i can correctly utilise a ruleset someone else created that i disagree with

but i can respect that some people are unwilling to do so

(o) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classics

(i) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scriptio_continua

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#146

Post by zorked »

GrinningFool wrote: post #112
justifier wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

professors teach to their opinion i took a shakespeare course at university where we were asked to read troilus and cressida and compare it to its source troilus and criseyde by chaucer i wrote that i disliked the piece because it just read like someone who recently got burned in love venting irrationally, noting that i liked shakespeare's version more because he gives the last word to pandarus(o) who uses it to comi…

Do you think it would have ended the same failed exam if you did that research first and included it in your interpretation?

My thoughts exactly. He had a good intuition, but teachers want substance not opinion - as they should.

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#147

Post by justifier »

NolF wrote: post #136
justifier wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

professors teach to their opinion i took a shakespeare course at university where we were asked to read troilus and cressida and compare it to its source troilus and criseyde by chaucer i wrote that i disliked the piece because it just read like someone who recently got burned in love venting irrationally, noting that i liked shakespeare's version more because he gives the last word to pandarus(o) who uses it to comi…

Were your grades corrected with the added information? I think grading matrixes would be well served it they assess the writing ability of the person. That is, how well can they justify their opinion with quotes and sources, rather than what the interpretation outcome itself.

the grade stayed, i did well enough in the course that this exam was pretty negligent

the bigger issue was that this interaction negatively affected my relationship with the professor.. who was unaware of il filastrato as a source for chaucer?!, and unimpressed that i read two supplemental works that were beyond the scope of the course syllabus

also frustratingly tainted my association with shakespeare since whenever someone talks about academic shakespeare i immediately want to monologue

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#148

Post by School-Cotton »

robotjosh wrote: post #127
School-Cotton wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you under the impression the only reason anyone would need to know assembly language is to work with microcontrollers?

Yes. Every firmware engineer works with assembly but barely any x86 devs ever touch assembly.

This is the base rate fallacy.

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#149

Post by ansgri »

jjoonathan wrote: post #126
justifier wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

professors teach to their opinion i took a shakespeare course at university where we were asked to read troilus and cressida and compare it to its source troilus and criseyde by chaucer i wrote that i disliked the piece because it just read like someone who recently got burned in love venting irrationally, noting that i liked shakespeare's version more because he gives the last word to pandarus(o) who uses it to comi…

Why did you omit capital letters and periods and misuse ellipses in a post which attacks academic English? These choices would be annoying enough in any post but for this one in particular they undermine your credibility.

considering the correct circonflexe on « benoît », it just might be that their primary language is more tolerant to avoidance of capitalization

or they might as well had to use some crappy inconvenient input method, like a sensor keyboard, which makes you want to minimize keystrokes.

Anyway, I'd also like to know the answer, I just wouldn't add that part about credibility.

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#150

Post by justifier »

GrinningFool wrote: post #112
justifier wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

professors teach to their opinion i took a shakespeare course at university where we were asked to read troilus and cressida and compare it to its source troilus and criseyde by chaucer i wrote that i disliked the piece because it just read like someone who recently got burned in love venting irrationally, noting that i liked shakespeare's version more because he gives the last word to pandarus(o) who uses it to comi…

Do you think it would have ended the same failed exam if you did that research first and included it in your interpretation?

there's more to the story.. lie by ommission

the course was set up that we would read a work and then write a one page response in class

here is where i voiced my distaste for chaucer 'creating', as was presented to our class, this story while appreciating shakey's subversion of the material

this garnered the 'f' for my opinions about love forlorned

then at the end of each four week period we would, in lieu of exams, choose one work to 'dive deeper on' and write a longer piece

i chose triolus because it was the one piece i got such a low score on

while 'going deeper' i ended up finding, and reading, bocaccio and sainte-maure and wrote about how all four are similar and different and how these comparisons related to my original, correct ;P, intuition

i got a 'd' with complaints to the effects of 'stick to the course material' and 'just drop it'

i think my axe grinding became the professor's honing stone, which is unfortunate that such a circumstance can occur in an as advertised educational environment

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