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Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

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Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#101

Post by matthewaveryusa »

cderwin wrote: post #6

If she had known the answer, would that make the question any better? I remember back when I was in high school, I always sort of assumed that the authors of the poems we were tested on wouldn't be able to answer the ridiculous questions on our assessments. But even if they did, I've never been able to figure out what skills these questions were testing. If poems are open to interpretation, isn't it reasonable to thi…

This reminds be of a hilarious problem I once had analyzing a poem in french lit class. Read this and tell me what you think (in english and french)? http://fleursdumal.org/poem/120

I thought the entire poem was sexual -- singular tree being a euphamism for a phallus, and the waves of the sea reverberations of an orgasm. I was given an F and sent to the principal's office. It was then and there that I decided that math was more my thing.

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#102

Post by kurthr »

cderwin wrote: post #6

If she had known the answer, would that make the question any better? I remember back when I was in high school, I always sort of assumed that the authors of the poems we were tested on wouldn't be able to answer the ridiculous questions on our assessments. But even if they did, I've never been able to figure out what skills these questions were testing. If poems are open to interpretation, isn't it reasonable to thi…

For most of the Multiple Guess standardized Testing the correct question/answer pair is found by correlating that question/answer with others where the high scoring test takers scored the same way... and differentiated from other low scoring test takers who get it wrong (some other answer). Testing houses have been using Big Data and correlation for many decades!

As a result, if you take the questions as part of a meta test, you can make some assumptions about answers that are "too easy" and instead choose one which is more correct (because high scorers tend to use it). That often means that correctly used, obscure but field relevant, vocabulary is actually the right (highest scoring) answer choice.

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#103

Post by thallada »

forgotpwtomain wrote: post #31

> I’m just down with a sniffly case/of sudden-self-loathing-syndrome … an unexpected extra serving/ of just-for-now-self-hate. How do these terrible poets even make it on to the curriculum / standardized-tests? The author suggests: > My poems are a whole lot cheaper than Mary Oliver’s or Jane Kenyon’s, so there’s that. What about all the classics in the public domain?! I read a lot independently as a kid but I recall…

I always thought it was because the test makers want the text samples to be obscure enough that most students will not have read them. Otherwise, it would give an unfair advantage to those that have read and considered it outside the time they are given for the test.

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#104

Post by toast0 »

Noseshine wrote: post #83
admax88q wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe it's because the specific assembly you learn is far less important than the act of learning any assembly. Learning your first programming language is a challenge, but once you have done that, subsequent languages are easier because you managed to adopt the programming mindset.

You may as well do that using something that's widely being used right now . Doing that to me seems to have obvious advantages. You seem to defend the usage of out of date stuff, with what argument? The one you give does not require using the old stuff.

If it's likely that you will understand the second assembly language you learn much better than the first, it could be better that you learn a commercially dead language first.

Alternatively, the 68HC11 is a very simple architecture, making it easy to learn the essence of assembly. Using an architecture with more capabilities will be easier than learning to do without. (although cycle counting on an architecture with memory latency is much harder)

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#105

Post by toast0 »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #98
RA_Fisher wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quantification of learning horrifies this statistician. The belief that a standardized test is more objective than say a trained human assessor neglects the subjective nature of human makers of the test. It puts the humans behind a facade that creates the appearance of objectivity but not actual objectivity. The benefit of standardized tests is that they lower labor costs of assessment not that they increase the…

Your argument is that standardized tests are more biased than individual assessment? I find that hard to believe bordering on ridiculous. There's a great deal of evidence that standardized exams are less biased as there's a consistent standard of correct answer across the board. With individual assessment there's far too much room for "I know what you meant" to sneak in. This has come up a lot with job interviews; if…

The argument is that an exam with free form answers is a more objective measure of knowledge than a multiple choice exam. Not an argument about bias.

I think it depends on the subject matter, especially interpretation of art is hard to have one correct answer, an essay test could be graded upon support for the argument etc, where a multiple choice test is really "what did the authors of the test think the author intended?"

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#106

Post by goodjam »

There is a wonderfull joke in talmud when two rabbis argue about some problem. One says: Let's call Jehova and ask him directly! So Jehova comes but the other rabbi tells him: God go away, you did your thing now let us wise men discuss about this. God says oh my god you are right and he leaves.

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#107

Post by obstinate »

cderwin wrote: post #6

If she had known the answer, would that make the question any better? I remember back when I was in high school, I always sort of assumed that the authors of the poems we were tested on wouldn't be able to answer the ridiculous questions on our assessments. But even if they did, I've never been able to figure out what skills these questions were testing. If poems are open to interpretation, isn't it reasonable to thi…

> If she had known the answer, would that make the question any better?

Of course not. But the fact she doesn't (or, to put it another way, the fact that she does and the right answer is not among the listed options) highlights the absurdity of the question.

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#108

Post by schoen »

goodjam wrote: post #106

There is a wonderfull joke in talmud when two rabbis argue about some problem. One says: Let's call Jehova and ask him directly! So Jehova comes but the other rabbi tells him: God go away, you did your thing now let us wise men discuss about this. God says oh my god you are right and he leaves.

The original is much more evocative: http://jhom.com/topics/voice/bat_kol_bab.htm

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#109

Post by Noseshine »

toast0 wrote: post #104
Noseshine wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may as well do that using something that's widely being used right now . Doing that to me seems to have obvious advantages. You seem to defend the usage of out of date stuff, with what argument? The one you give does not require using the old stuff.

If it's likely that you will understand the second assembly language you learn much better than the first, it could be better that you learn a commercially dead language first. Alternatively, the 68HC11 is a very simple architecture, making it easy to learn the essence of assembly. Using an architecture with more capabilities will be easier than learning to do without. (although cycle counting on an architecture with…

   it could be better that you learn a commercially
   dead language first.
Why? It does not follow from your argument, you just make that claim - one that I find very strange.

Re: Poet: I can’t answer questions on Texas standardized tests about my own poems

#110

Post by obstinate »

Freak_NL wrote: post #52
Spooky23 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're lucky this is an engineer heavy forum. Around humanities people, your comment is like pouring gasoline in an open flame.

How so? Crudely generalising; wouldn't engineering types be more susceptible to conclude that there is only one sanctioned way interpreting some text rather than someone with a humanities background? (I happen to be both. Poetry to me seems almost by definition something that will evoke different responses and insights for each reader.)

There's a large debate in humanities about whether authorial intent matters which has been roiling for decades. I think it was either kicked off or summarized by an essay called "The Death of the Author."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author

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