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Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

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Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#31

Post by PeterisP »

mvitorino wrote: post #20
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more inefficient than Capitalism, which is its Achilles heel. Socialism works when there is 'free' production to fuel it. Like in the Netherlands. It fails when the money stops pumping in, like Venezuela. Automation may provide the free input that makes a more humane (more Socialist) system work for everybody?

There is no such thing as free production because resources are not unlimited.

There is such a thing as production decoupled from labor.

We still need a way to allocate the limited resources, but the primary way to do can't be labor/salaries anymore - because in the near future, unlike all the past millenia, labor of most people is simply not needed for optimum production.

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#33

Post by zo1 »

chinathrow wrote: post #23
yummyfajitas wrote: post #4

The modern luddite movement is already here. A few days ago I was unable to get an Uber out of Hyderabad airport because of a "strike". "Strike" might be the euphemism of the year - it refers to angry taxi drivers/autowales striking Uber drivers who continue to drive. This is not an isolated experience, many other countries (Columbia, France, Brazil) have the same problem with violent angry mobs trying to shut down a…

> French politicians similarly surrendered to the terrorists. How do you feel calling someone striking a terrorist?

Not sure about what the OP is referring to, but striking may very well be seen as "terrorist" behavior if it turns violent. I.e. They're trying to "intimidate" and "scare" using violence against innocent people.

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#34

Post by smileysteve »

jayjay71 wrote: post #14
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #6

Stephen Hawking made a great point last year when he wrote that automation/robots aren't the problem, capitalism is the problem. Most of the world takes for granted a system that allocates resources and the results of production in a way that encourages the highest profits with the least costs. Since humans are the highest cost, they are the biggest target for automation. We have a golden opportunity to create a bett…

How do you think the new governments will unfold? Will there be gradual changes in multiple countries around the world, or will there be violent uprisings? Historically speaking, at least in the United States, the citizens are far less powerful than the state simply due to the imbalance in weapons. The point of the 2nd amendment was so the people would be more powerful than the government, but due to the ban on machi…

Part of enabling the masses to go to war with the government is that if the war is long/wopsided enough then there are no more masses to be governed.

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#35

Post by jhoechtl »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #16
cdiego wrote: post #15

We are destroying the natural world, without respect or harmony with nature. Itsn't the automation the real problem, its our relations with others people or kind of life.

Perveresely, with automation taking jobs that leaves people more time to spend in nature. So we'll be returning to harmony?

Unfortunately no, instead you will spend it with Nezflix, Amazon Prime, your game console, Alexa, ....

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#36

Post by deadbunny »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #11
tushar-r wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A few days ago I was unable to get an Uber out of Hyderabad airport because of a "strike". "Strike" might be the euphemism of the year - it refers to angry taxi drivers/autowales striking Uber drivers who continue to drive. Nope. The Uber and Ola drivers are themselves striking against the two companies. "The drivers have also demanded that no new cabs be licensed until existing drivers are guaranteed a minimum of d…

I was told by the person I was visiting in Hyderabad that those who didn't go along with the strike were attacked. However I cannot find independent corroboration of this via Google (then again I don't speak or read Telugu). So I may be mistaken on this and I concede that the anecdote may be badly chosen. That said, in other cities the luddites have become violent: http://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/mumba…

Violence an intimidation towards "scabs" has a long history.

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#38

Post by mvitorino »

PeterisP wrote: post #31
mvitorino wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as free production because resources are not unlimited.

There is such a thing as production decoupled from labor. We still need a way to allocate the limited resources, but the primary way to do can't be labor/salaries anymore - because in the near future, unlike all the past millenia, labor of most people is simply not needed for optimum production.

I can't think of a single industry that has been able to completely decouple production from labor. Even something as simple as subway ticketing machines or vending machines require technicians to deploy and maintain them. Sure, most people that sold tickets lost that job, but economies have always found a new occupation for most.

Seems to me most have exaggerated expectations of the impact of automation.

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#39

Post by tyleraland »

zo1 wrote: post #33
chinathrow wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> French politicians similarly surrendered to the terrorists. How do you feel calling someone striking a terrorist?

Not sure about what the OP is referring to, but striking may very well be seen as "terrorist" behavior if it turns violent. I.e. They're trying to "intimidate" and "scare" using violence against innocent people.

I worry about the consequences of labeling a large group of assembled people as "terrorists" based on the (real or perceived) actions or rhetoric of a few.

E.g., if a large group of angry protesters is staring down a national guard and shots are fired on the crowd, officials need only claim that the crowd fired first and thus the slaughter of "terrorists" might be justified.

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#40

Post by tushar-r »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #11
tushar-r wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A few days ago I was unable to get an Uber out of Hyderabad airport because of a "strike". "Strike" might be the euphemism of the year - it refers to angry taxi drivers/autowales striking Uber drivers who continue to drive. Nope. The Uber and Ola drivers are themselves striking against the two companies. "The drivers have also demanded that no new cabs be licensed until existing drivers are guaranteed a minimum of d…

I was told by the person I was visiting in Hyderabad that those who didn't go along with the strike were attacked. However I cannot find independent corroboration of this via Google (then again I don't speak or read Telugu). So I may be mistaken on this and I concede that the anecdote may be badly chosen. That said, in other cities the luddites have become violent: http://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/mumba…

>I was told by the person I was visiting in Hyderabad that those who didn't go along with the strike were attacked.

That is common in any strike in India. Previously, when auto drivers went on strike for any reason, if one of them broke the strike, they would be beaten up.

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