Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 67 posts

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#11

Post by yummyfajitas »

tushar-r wrote: post #7
yummyfajitas wrote: post #4

The modern luddite movement is already here. A few days ago I was unable to get an Uber out of Hyderabad airport because of a "strike". "Strike" might be the euphemism of the year - it refers to angry taxi drivers/autowales striking Uber drivers who continue to drive. This is not an isolated experience, many other countries (Columbia, France, Brazil) have the same problem with violent angry mobs trying to shut down a…

>A few days ago I was unable to get an Uber out of Hyderabad airport because of a "strike". "Strike" might be the euphemism of the year - it refers to angry taxi drivers/autowales striking Uber drivers who continue to drive. Nope. The Uber and Ola drivers are themselves striking against the two companies. "The drivers have also demanded that no new cabs be licensed until existing drivers are guaranteed a minimum of d…

I was told by the person I was visiting in Hyderabad that those who didn't go along with the strike were attacked. However I cannot find independent corroboration of this via Google (then again I don't speak or read Telugu). So I may be mistaken on this and I concede that the anecdote may be badly chosen.

That said, in other cities the luddites have become violent: http://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/mumbai-taxi-d... https://www.google.co.in/amp/www.hindustantimes.com/india/ub... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jun/26/uber-back...

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#12

Post by mvitorino »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #6

Stephen Hawking made a great point last year when he wrote that automation/robots aren't the problem, capitalism is the problem. Most of the world takes for granted a system that allocates resources and the results of production in a way that encourages the highest profits with the least costs. Since humans are the highest cost, they are the biggest target for automation. We have a golden opportunity to create a bett…

95% of people used to work in agriculture and now less than 5% do in most modern countries and also, as a result, there is a lot more food to go around.

Automation has been around for a while now. It's not a new problem and hasn't caused society to collapse yet.

As to alternatives to Capitalism, Communism was one that promised a more "equitable" way of living...

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#13

Post by Joeri »

It's unlikely that people will identify automation as the cause of the problem. Take a look at the U.S. manufacturing sector. What is the story? Jobs are being shipped overseas, and the manufacturing sector is dying. What is the reality? Measured by output the U.S. manufacturing sector is bigger than ever before and has grown by a fifth since 2000, while cutting the number of workers by a third. Profits have soared, double what they were in the 90's. Automation is the cause of manufacturing job loss, but people blame nafta and elect trump to close the borders.

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#14

Post by jayjay71 »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #6

Stephen Hawking made a great point last year when he wrote that automation/robots aren't the problem, capitalism is the problem. Most of the world takes for granted a system that allocates resources and the results of production in a way that encourages the highest profits with the least costs. Since humans are the highest cost, they are the biggest target for automation. We have a golden opportunity to create a bett…

How do you think the new governments will unfold? Will there be gradual changes in multiple countries around the world, or will there be violent uprisings?

Historically speaking, at least in the United States, the citizens are far less powerful than the state simply due to the imbalance in weapons. The point of the 2nd amendment was so the people would be more powerful than the government, but due to the ban on machine guns and numerous other restrictions, I don't think anybody would argue the masses have nearly as much firepower as the military/police.

Exciting times ahead? I have to agree it feels like a change is coming, mostly due to the rapidly growing number of humans and dwindling of limited resources combined with growing inequality, but it's hard to predict what will happen (if anything) and when.

You think we'll see anything resembling a post-capitalist society in our lifetimes?

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#16

Post by JoeAltmaier »

cdiego wrote: post #15

We are destroying the natural world, without respect or harmony with nature. Itsn't the automation the real problem, its our relations with others people or kind of life.

Perveresely, with automation taking jobs that leaves people more time to spend in nature. So we'll be returning to harmony?

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#17

Post by JoeAltmaier »

mvitorino wrote: post #12
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #6

Stephen Hawking made a great point last year when he wrote that automation/robots aren't the problem, capitalism is the problem. Most of the world takes for granted a system that allocates resources and the results of production in a way that encourages the highest profits with the least costs. Since humans are the highest cost, they are the biggest target for automation. We have a golden opportunity to create a bett…

95% of people used to work in agriculture and now less than 5% do in most modern countries and also, as a result, there is a lot more food to go around. Automation has been around for a while now. It's not a new problem and hasn't caused society to collapse yet. As to alternatives to Capitalism, Communism was one that promised a more "equitable" way of living...

It's more inefficient than Capitalism, which is its Achilles heel. Socialism works when there is 'free' production to fuel it. Like in the Netherlands. It fails when the money stops pumping in, like Venezuela. Automation may provide the free input that makes a more humane (more Socialist) system work for everybody?

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#18

Post by majewsky »

mvitorino wrote: post #12
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #6

Stephen Hawking made a great point last year when he wrote that automation/robots aren't the problem, capitalism is the problem. Most of the world takes for granted a system that allocates resources and the results of production in a way that encourages the highest profits with the least costs. Since humans are the highest cost, they are the biggest target for automation. We have a golden opportunity to create a bett…

95% of people used to work in agriculture and now less than 5% do in most modern countries and also, as a result, there is a lot more food to go around. Automation has been around for a while now. It's not a new problem and hasn't caused society to collapse yet. As to alternatives to Capitalism, Communism was one that promised a more "equitable" way of living...

Ah, the old fallacy that absence of capitalism equals communism. Yet humankind existed for millenia before either system was introduced.

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#19

Post by aluhut »

jayjay71 wrote: post #14
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #6

Stephen Hawking made a great point last year when he wrote that automation/robots aren't the problem, capitalism is the problem. Most of the world takes for granted a system that allocates resources and the results of production in a way that encourages the highest profits with the least costs. Since humans are the highest cost, they are the biggest target for automation. We have a golden opportunity to create a bett…

How do you think the new governments will unfold? Will there be gradual changes in multiple countries around the world, or will there be violent uprisings? Historically speaking, at least in the United States, the citizens are far less powerful than the state simply due to the imbalance in weapons. The point of the 2nd amendment was so the people would be more powerful than the government, but due to the ban on machi…

If the last decades have shown something, then that firepower is not really relevant for resistance.

I think a corporate government model may jump in if the anti-terror infrastructure can't handle it at some point.

Re: Ask HN: Will automation generate social massive protests?

#20

Post by mvitorino »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #17
mvitorino wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

95% of people used to work in agriculture and now less than 5% do in most modern countries and also, as a result, there is a lot more food to go around. Automation has been around for a while now. It's not a new problem and hasn't caused society to collapse yet. As to alternatives to Capitalism, Communism was one that promised a more "equitable" way of living...

It's more inefficient than Capitalism, which is its Achilles heel. Socialism works when there is 'free' production to fuel it. Like in the Netherlands. It fails when the money stops pumping in, like Venezuela. Automation may provide the free input that makes a more humane (more Socialist) system work for everybody?

There is no such thing as free production because resources are not unlimited.
Post reply on HN