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Text Your Way to College

nytimes.com

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Re: Text Your Way to College

#81

Post by microcolonel »

echo419 wrote: post #75

It's always interesting watching discussions of class come up on HN. As someone who comes from a working class background/family, it astounds me how often people will respond with the idea that the tech industry/any kind of(generally college) education is some kind of meritocracy, or that the solution is to simply 'work harder'. Those are certainly nice sentiments, but far from reality(See, the Myth of Meritocracy[0]…

Don't know what you're talking about. Most of my colleagues got into the industry by going to open/free events and using materials which can be found freely on the internet.

I came from a lower middle class family with a host of awful circumstances I won't go into. I learned most of what I needed to get a job through reading Wikipedia. A friend of mine and I did odd jobs for neighbourhood companies (and got screwed a lot) until he landed an entry level position at a web shop. A year later he was working at a different company and had them bring me in for an interview.

The prerequisite for getting into my industry, at least until some asshole decides to regulate it, is any home computer manufactured in the last decade (you can get a core 2 duo machine, a monitor, and a keyboard for about 20 bucks today), and a desire to work.

Today I can easily demand a six-figure salary and I've only been working full time for about two and a half years. Many people who are not as good as I am can get less after more working years. That is at least somewhat meritocratic.

Re: Text Your Way to College

#82

Post by trome »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #47
hrehhf wrote: post #25

Going to an Ivy League school does not help the student earn more money compared to going to a non-Ivy, except for students from certain disadvantaged backgrounds. "students, who were accepted into elite schools, but went to less selective institutions, earned salaries just as high as Ivy League grads." http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/the-college-solution/2...

There's also the argument that especially as a physician you have the obligation to your patients to do the best job you can. It's true for any profession but for physicians it's hard to see why anyone would object the reasoning. The difference between a top-25 school and anything else is like day and night, the students, the faculty, the equipment, the exposure to current research, and it's still true even though it…

This is a really broad statement, with bold claims like:

The difference between a top-25 school and anything else is like day and night

With no citations or supporting evidence. Nor is a Top-25 school defined, is it a Top-25 school in the US overall, or is it in that specific field, etc? Cause there are programs at Ivy League schools that turn out below average civil engineers, which I have had the pleasure of interacting with. I would thus make an educated guess that this would apply to other schools as well, meaning you should do research on the ground to know what kind of education your going to be getting, since transferring colleges isn't quick or painless.

Re: Text Your Way to College

#83

Post by trome »

drewg123 wrote: post #73
akhilcacharya wrote: post #20

On one hand, I hear breathless reassurances from people like Frank Bruni (also at the Times) that "school doesn't matter" and "college is what you make it". At the same time, we get articles like these. Now, as someone pursuing CS at a second or maybe even third tier institution - which is it?

The "tier" thing pisses me off. Lots of "top tier" people go to "third tier" universities for various reasons. Eg, financial, family commitments, non-traditional circumstances, etc. I was accepted to a top tier CS uni, but did not get financial aid. I came from a blue collar family with parents born in the depression era. So we saved every penny. Every dime my parents had went into paying off their (tiny) mortgage on…

Google definitely lets top tier employees slip right through their hiring process, as does basically every other company. Is Google going to be reaching out often to students at universities near their campus locations? Probably not, and definitely not with the intensity that they go after students at first tier universities with middling CS programs.

Where you get your degree from is important, and will change your prospects of getting hired (eg. Many companies won't hire UBC graduates, even though they do better than candidates from tier 1 universities). Hopefully their loss & the graduate's gain, since there are likely other major issues lurking under the surface with many of those companies that self select not to hire those candidates.

Re: Text Your Way to College

#84

Post by trome »

slededit wrote: post #24
akhilcacharya wrote: post #20

On one hand, I hear breathless reassurances from people like Frank Bruni (also at the Times) that "school doesn't matter" and "college is what you make it". At the same time, we get articles like these. Now, as someone pursuing CS at a second or maybe even third tier institution - which is it?

It used to be tech was all about skill and nothing else mattered. Netscape, Microsoft, etc had lots of people with zero university - you just had to be able to code. But something has changed since then. Now the big companies primarily hire from "target" schools - much like how finance does it. Skill is still heavily in demand and a non top tier school isn't a deal breaker. But your working up hill.

Definitely, the major change has been Universities monetizing this whole segment of untapped market, whereby they can get 4 paid years of tuition from the average student, where before all these people were bypassing their educational system.

Same deal with bootcamps, just much shorter timelines and larger margins. Its an industry that allows HR and managers to easily make decisions about hiring, even though hiring is like judging wine, some years at some schools produced much better talent than others, and that talent has (hopefully) improved since then... and small unknown vineyards can produce amazing stuff.

Re: Text Your Way to College

#85

Post by trome »

ronnier wrote: post #35
akhilcacharya wrote: post #20

On one hand, I hear breathless reassurances from people like Frank Bruni (also at the Times) that "school doesn't matter" and "college is what you make it". At the same time, we get articles like these. Now, as someone pursuing CS at a second or maybe even third tier institution - which is it?

I don't really think it matters. I grew up in government housing as a child, lived in a very violent city all the way through high school, in an area ranked the least educated in the US. I just worked hard, made the right choices, didn't do anything too stupid (or didn't get caught ;-)), and kept at it, studied, building skills. Got an undergraduate and graduate degree from UT Dallas. Started at Amazon shortly after,…

3 years at Amazon practically makes you a piece of the furniture there! That puts you well into the top 10% of employees by length of employment. Good job in surviving what most can't!

Re: Text Your Way to College

#86

Post by GooglyMoogly »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #26
sremani wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not an expert, but #1. You are average of 5 peers you hang out with (a good thumb rule). #2. There is a huge valley between Software Engineering vs Computer Science (what is your goal here.) For #1. meet-ups and getting programmer mentor is good idea. If you really want to do pure CS, there is no alternative to college, but for Software Gig, a good programmer mentor gives better direction than College/University…

Yet none of that matters if top companies don't interview at your school for internships...which they don't for the most part.

Google was at the career fair at my university. I went and talked to them. They said apply online. I did that, did phone interviews and got an internship.

So at least for Google, they don't need to come to your college.

Re: Text Your Way to College

#87

Post by snowwrestler »

stale2002 wrote: post #52
nether wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A while back, the Economist said, "a dumb rich kid has a much better chance at attending an elite school than a brilliant poor kid." If a university is to maintain the goal of admitting smart students, then this would be a step toward that.

Sure, but that costs money. The goal of a university is to pay the bills. I am sure that any university would be willing to accept that brilliant poor kid, as long as someone was paying that 50k a year tuition price tag.

Saying that the goal of a university is to pay the bills is saying nothing; everyone needs to pay the bills. That's not a goal, it's a means.

Bridging the gap between brilliant students and expensive education is why colleges and universities have endowments, and high sticker prices in the first place. The richest students overpay so the university can bring in smart students who aren't rich.

Re: Text Your Way to College

#88

Post by Eridrus »

stale2002 wrote: post #69
akhilcacharya wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest concern is salary trajectory. For instance, a converting intern at FB gets $75-125K signing over a normal new grad hire (just an example, less applicable to me specifically).

O.o Are the numbers really that high? Boy have I been in the startup industry for way too long....

FB is an exception to the rule here.

Re: Text Your Way to College

#89

Post by Eridrus »

OJFord wrote: post #10

I realise in a sense this is not a particularly nice thought, but: > Colleges and universities need to join forces to encourage poor, high-achieving students to attend top-flight schools and nudge accepted students to enroll. Doing the right thing for students has never been so cheap. Do they? Competition is so high, however cheap it is, I can't see any upside for the university other than image. And that image is un…

Universities like Stanford have ridiculous endowments that let them finance a significant chunk of their operations on interest alone.

Re: Text Your Way to College

#90

Post by ronnier »

trome wrote: post #85
ronnier wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really think it matters. I grew up in government housing as a child, lived in a very violent city all the way through high school, in an area ranked the least educated in the US. I just worked hard, made the right choices, didn't do anything too stupid (or didn't get caught ;-)), and kept at it, studied, building skills. Got an undergraduate and graduate degree from UT Dallas. Started at Amazon shortly after,…

3 years at Amazon practically makes you a piece of the furniture there! That puts you well into the top 10% of employees by length of employment. Good job in surviving what most can't!

I stayed almost 6 years. I just had a really good opportunity, otherwise I would have stayed.
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