Text Your Way to College • Hacker News Board

Re: Text Your Way to College

#21

Post by nether » Sat, Jan 07, 2017, 7:19 PM UTC

OJFord wrote: post #10

I realise in a sense this is not a particularly nice thought, but: > Colleges and universities need to join forces to encourage poor, high-achieving students to attend top-flight schools and nudge accepted students to enroll. Doing the right thing for students has never been so cheap. Do they? Competition is so high, however cheap it is, I can't see any upside for the university other than image. And that image is un…

A while back, the Economist said, "a dumb rich kid has a much better chance at attending an elite school than a brilliant poor kid." If a university is to maintain the goal of admitting smart students, then this would be a step toward that.

Re: Text Your Way to College

#22

Post by extra88 » Sat, Jan 07, 2017, 7:23 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #6

IslaDeEncanta wrote: post #2

For most people, going to elite schools is a waste of money. For example, a high achieving student from a lower middle class family who goes to Harvard still pays the equivalent of full tuition and fees at an average state school, while they can often get a full ride at a state school. Obviously there are a lot of ways an elite education can help you, but most people don't want to be a lawyer or go into business.

No. Someone from the lower middle class would have nearly all their room, board, and tuition taken care of, with maybe 10k in low interest federal loans. It's folks in the area around ~$100k who get hosed.

If your family makes $100k, they'll pay, at most, $10k/year. That's about the average for in-state tuition so hardly what I'd call getting hosed.

Again, Harvard is not representative of all top private schools or event all Ivy League schools when it comes to cost of attendance.

Re: Text Your Way to College

#23

Post by sremani » Sat, Jan 07, 2017, 7:23 PM UTC

akhilcacharya wrote: post #20

On one hand, I hear breathless reassurances from people like Frank Bruni (also at the Times) that "school doesn't matter" and "college is what you make it". At the same time, we get articles like these. Now, as someone pursuing CS at a second or maybe even third tier institution - which is it?

I am not an expert, but

#1. You are average of 5 peers you hang out with (a good thumb rule).

#2. There is a huge valley between Software Engineering vs Computer Science (what is your goal here.)

For #1. meet-ups and getting programmer mentor is good idea.

If you really want to do pure CS, there is no alternative to college, but for Software Gig, a good programmer mentor gives better direction than College/University.

edit: this advice is primarily for second/third tier universities or comparing with them.

Re: Text Your Way to College

#24

Post by slededit » Sat, Jan 07, 2017, 7:26 PM UTC

akhilcacharya wrote: post #20

On one hand, I hear breathless reassurances from people like Frank Bruni (also at the Times) that "school doesn't matter" and "college is what you make it". At the same time, we get articles like these. Now, as someone pursuing CS at a second or maybe even third tier institution - which is it?

It used to be tech was all about skill and nothing else mattered. Netscape, Microsoft, etc had lots of people with zero university - you just had to be able to code.

But something has changed since then. Now the big companies primarily hire from "target" schools - much like how finance does it.

Skill is still heavily in demand and a non top tier school isn't a deal breaker. But your working up hill.

Re: Text Your Way to College

#25

Post by hrehhf » Sat, Jan 07, 2017, 7:34 PM UTC

Going to an Ivy League school does not help the student earn more money compared to going to a non-Ivy, except for students from certain disadvantaged backgrounds.

"students, who were accepted into elite schools, but went to less selective institutions, earned salaries just as high as Ivy League grads."

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/the-college-solution/2...

Re: Text Your Way to College

#26

Post by akhilcacharya » Sat, Jan 07, 2017, 7:34 PM UTC

sremani wrote: post #23

akhilcacharya wrote: post #20

On one hand, I hear breathless reassurances from people like Frank Bruni (also at the Times) that "school doesn't matter" and "college is what you make it". At the same time, we get articles like these. Now, as someone pursuing CS at a second or maybe even third tier institution - which is it?

I am not an expert, but #1. You are average of 5 peers you hang out with (a good thumb rule). #2. There is a huge valley between Software Engineering vs Computer Science (what is your goal here.) For #1. meet-ups and getting programmer mentor is good idea. If you really want to do pure CS, there is no alternative to college, but for Software Gig, a good programmer mentor gives better direction than College/University…

Yet none of that matters if top companies don't interview at your school for internships...which they don't for the most part.

Re: Text Your Way to College

#27

Post by IslaDeEncanta » Sat, Jan 07, 2017, 7:35 PM UTC

extra88 wrote: post #19

IslaDeEncanta wrote: post #2

For most people, going to elite schools is a waste of money. For example, a high achieving student from a lower middle class family who goes to Harvard still pays the equivalent of full tuition and fees at an average state school, while they can often get a full ride at a state school. Obviously there are a lot of ways an elite education can help you, but most people don't want to be a lawyer or go into business.

Harvard isn't a good example, they offer tremendous financial aid. If your household income is less than $65,000 (which could count as lower middle class), you pay nothing. By their figures 90% of households in America would pay less for Harvard than for a state school. [0] There are many private colleges with a higher "sticker price" than Harvard but with a much lower discount rate (i.e. what the average student pay…

Harvard pays up to 90% of costs, which in my case was the full cost of the state school I got a scholarship to.

Re: Text Your Way to College

#28

Post by IslaDeEncanta » Sat, Jan 07, 2017, 7:37 PM UTC

gumby wrote: post #5

IslaDeEncanta wrote: post #2

For most people, going to elite schools is a waste of money. For example, a high achieving student from a lower middle class family who goes to Harvard still pays the equivalent of full tuition and fees at an average state school, while they can often get a full ride at a state school. Obviously there are a lot of ways an elite education can help you, but most people don't want to be a lawyer or go into business.

I suggest reading Hillbilly Elegy (J.D. Vance) which offers a counterexample. It was cheaper for him to go to Yale law school than to Ohio State.

Law is a different story altogether though. I was talking about undergrad.

Re: Text Your Way to College

#29

Post by IslaDeEncanta » Sat, Jan 07, 2017, 7:45 PM UTC

scott_s wrote: post #13

niftich wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's implied in the article that the opposite is true. Certain elite schools cover tuition, room and board, and occasionally supplies for low-income students through merit-based scholarships [1] even for out-of-state students, while many state schools can only afford to grant fewer full-rides, and usually only covering the in-state price -- with out-of-state being significantly more expensive. This doesn't mean that…

You are not necessarily in disagreement with IslaDeEncanta, as they said "lower middle class", not "low-income". What exactly constitutes "middle class", and even "lower middle class" is not clear. But, I think, most would agree "low income" means not middle class, so you're probably talking about different sets of people.

You're right. I wasn't really talking about people in poverty/near poverty. They can benefit from the network involved with an Ivy more than just about anyone, because they usually don't have a network at all.

Re: Text Your Way to College

#30

Post by saboot » Sat, Jan 07, 2017, 7:52 PM UTC

OJFord wrote: post #10

I realise in a sense this is not a particularly nice thought, but: > Colleges and universities need to join forces to encourage poor, high-achieving students to attend top-flight schools and nudge accepted students to enroll. Doing the right thing for students has never been so cheap. Do they? Competition is so high, however cheap it is, I can't see any upside for the university other than image. And that image is un…

A better off student coming from either wealth or parents with college experience have more resources from their families and peers in figuring out the logistics in going to college. How to get housing, financial aid, how to sign up for classes, etc.

A student who is poor or without the support and knowledge base of their family and peers must figure out all of this on their own. It was already stressful for me to figure out when I attended college, and I was in a pretty good position.

So there is a disparity which isn't based on the academic admission standards of the university, but on the students economic and social background. Providing additional support is a pretty cheap way to alleviate that disparity. The university will now get more higher quality students to attend.